What Is the Church, Really? It's Not the Building. | Bible, Bros & Brew

The church is not a building — it's the body of Christ. According to 1 Corinthians 12:27 and Ephesians 1:22-23, every believer who has accepted Jesus is joined into one living body with Christ as the head. Believers are also called the temple of God in 1 Corinthians 3:16-17, since the Holy Spirit dwells in people, not in walls. The Greek word "ekklesia," translated "church," literally means "the called-out ones" — a people, not a place. David McIntyre and Phillip Rich explain why this matters for how you see yourself and your local gathering. 

In Episode 1 of "The Broken Church," David McIntyre and Phillip Rich set the foundation for a two-part conversation about church health by first defining the church biblically. Walking through 1 Corinthians 12, Ephesians 1 and 2, Colossians 1, and 1 Peter 2, they show the church is the body of Christ and the temple of God, not an organization, building, or membership list. They close with a practical challenge: this week, try calling your church the "gathering place" instead — and see how it reshapes how you see yourself. 

 Scripture Referenced:  1 Corinthians chapter 12, verses 12-13 and 27 · Romans chapter 12, verses 4-5 · Ephesians chapter 1, verses 15-23 · Colossians chapter 1, verses 15-18 and 24 · 1 Corinthians chapter 3, verses 16-17 · 1 Corinthians chapter 6, verses 19-20 · 2 Corinthians chapter 6, verse 16 · Ephesians chapter 2, verses 19-22 · 1 Peter chapter 2, verses 4-5 

Hosts:  David McIntyre and Phillip Rich, with host/producer Jon Dzyuba — Bible, Bros & Brew 

FAQ    

Q: Why does the Bible call believers "the temple of God"? 

A: Because the Holy Spirit dwells in believers under the new covenant, not in a physical structure like the Old Testament temple. 

 Q: What's the difference between "the church" and "the gathering place"? 

A: The church is the people — every believer, everywhere. The gathering place is the local building or group where believers meet. 

 Q: What's next in this series? 

A: Part 2 covers the difference between being the church and going to church. 

Subscribe to Bible, Bros & Brew wherever you listen, and find Part 2 next Monday at 6 AM.  

Where the Word Meets the Daily Grind. 

#BibleBrosAndBrew #BBBPodcast #TheBrokenChurch #BodyOfChrist #WhatIsTheChurch #FaithAndCoffee #ChristianPodcast #BibleStudy 

gotbrew@biblebros.net

Transcript

Church Is People Not Building

David McIntyre 0:00

You know, most people use the term church to describe a place. You know, we say, I'm going to church, we had church today, our church is on the street, or I grew up in the church. And that's normal language to us. And it's not necessarily wrong, but we need to be clear. The church is not primarily a building, it's a people. And we're gonna clarify that today on Bible Bros and Brew.

Welcome Back And Set The Stakes

David McIntyre 0:55

Hey everybody, and welcome to this episode of Bible Bros and Brew. We took a little week off, but we're back, and we are excited about what we're gonna talk about tonight. Um, we are going to be sharing a little bit, we're gonna clear the air. We've got to be very clear and distinct about who and what the church is. And tonight, if you've ever asked that question about who or what the church actually is and all the pieces that fall around it, you're going to be very happy of the about this conversation tonight. And it's all part of a bigger conversation where we begin to talk about the church and some of the things that we need to do to not only identify a great place for us to connect, but also to fix some of the things that we see that are going on in the local community around Christians that probably shouldn't be, and that hinders us from having the kind of gathering that we desire to have. I'm not going to do this alone, as usual. I've got with me on my precious, precious co-host. Yes, it's good to be precious. On the what appears to be the other side of him is that young book, he does his best to produce. Sometimes he reduces, but most times he produces, and that is a beneficial thing, ladies and gentlemen.

Jon Dzyuba 2:36

Gen Z John, yeah, bro. So thank you. Thank you.

David McIntyre 2:42

Welcome, gentlemen. How's everybody doing tonight?

Phillip Rich 2:46

Rocking and rolling. Doing good.

David McIntyre 2:49

I'm really excited to have this conversation tonight. Um, because I think it's gonna help a lot of people. And um, I think it's also gonna clear the air, and then it's gonna clear the air about some things we're gonna talk about down the line. So uh Phil, what's your thought about what we're gonna talk about tonight?

Phillip Rich 3:09

I'm really excited about it. Uh it's it's you know, something that if you've been in the Christian world for any length of time, it's so common just to to throw that term around church, you know. I like David was saying in the intro, I go to church or uh I grew up in church, that type of thing. And and but when you look at what the Bible actually says and what the Bible actually calls the church, it's the body of the people, it's not the building. Um, and I know David's gonna get a lot more into that, but um uh it's just something to really kind of it's a mindset shift, really, David, because you know, when you start looking at the church for how God sees it and how God has labeled it, it's uh it gives you a whole new kind of perspective on what we should prioritize in our in our walk with him. But I'm not we're gonna dig a lot further into it, but uh uh that's just some some initial thoughts there.

David McIntyre 4:07

Yeah, it's gonna be good, but of course we've got to find out first because again, what we are sipping on will determine how conversational we'll be tonight.

Coffee Picks And Cereal Nostalgia

David McIntyre 4:20

So let's find out what's in the cup.

Jon Dzyuba 4:33

Well, all right.

David McIntyre 4:35

Let's talk about what's in the cup tonight. John, I'm gonna start with you. What you drinking? That's a good question.

Jon Dzyuba 4:41

Uh, you ask it every week, and I'm gonna answer it every week. I did I just forget the bag to show you guys what it is. Uh, I did drink it before on here, but like I think maybe a few weeks ago, maybe. Um, it's bones coffee, fruity cereal flavored. Um, it's basically that's exactly what it is. Oh man.

David McIntyre 5:08

I know it's like that because I don't understand how fruity cereal and coffee go together.

Jon Dzyuba 5:15

It it doesn't, I'll be honest with you. It doesn't, but it's like okay, live example right here. Ready? Okay, it tastes like coffee going in, right? But it leaves like an aftertaste of like fruity pebbles, you know what I mean? Dude, plus I was down with the the kids down there, and they wanted to choose my coffee so badly. And of course, if you've seen the bag before, it's like the most brightly like neon colored bag, and they're like, That one, that one, drink that one, and then uh it wasn't my choice tonight. I gotta I gotta admit, it's not my choice, you know. It's a beautiful choice, it's the only choice.

Phillip Rich 6:00

Okay, let me stop.

Jon Dzyuba 6:02

But um, yeah, man, coffee.

Phillip Rich 6:05

Can I say, John, that fruity pebbles was probably my favorite doggone cereal growing up, like as an 80s. You hated fruity pebbles, dude.

David McIntyre 6:15

Yeah, it was horrible. It was horrible.

Jon Dzyuba 6:18

See, that's why you're hating on the coffee because you don't like the fruity pebbles, Uncle Phil. I think you'd love this coffee, and you need to give it a try.

Phillip Rich 6:27

Okay, I you know how I'm I'm not a always partial to flavored coffees, but I'm willing to make an exception, John, just to see how this thing rocks out.

Jon Dzyuba 6:37

So to be fair, bones Bones Coffee does specialize in like if you go on their website, they do all the the seasonal stuff, the flavored stuff. Okay, it's kind of cool, it's one of my favorites. I haven't had a bad coffee from them yet.

Phillip Rich 6:54

If it can bring back the 80s nostalgia for me, dude, that'll be another level right there.

Jon Dzyuba 6:58

So hold please. I might have one for you. Um, well, don't hold.

Phillip Rich 7:05

So, David man, I gotta ask you then while John's looking it up, what was your favorite cereal then?

David McIntyre 7:10

Uh honestly, I was an Applejacks crap Captain Crunch. Yes, yes, and anytime I got the peanut butter crunch, that was even better than regular Captain Crunch, dude.

Phillip Rich 7:27

See, that's the best kept secret, man. People think that because you had those bright crunch berries, that was like the deal, you know, or whatever. Nah, man, peanut butter doggone crunch.

David McIntyre 7:36

That was like uh unassailable, and let me tell you, I didn't hate fruit loops or tricks either.

Phillip Rich 7:46

But dude, do you remember Count Chocula, Frankenberry and Blueberry?

David McIntyre 7:54

I could tear up a Frankenberry and a blueberry, but that Frankenberry, if that Frankenberry showed up in my house, I was like, oh yeah, we would lose our minds over Frankenberry. Oh gosh, let Frankenberry show up in the house to this day. If I see Frankenberry on the aisle, I get a little kiddie. That's awesome. Good to know. Good to know. That was the most important, like that was some serious stuff. Yeah, but Applejacks, I could I could live off of Applejacks, dude.

Phillip Rich 8:36

Yes, sir. This is one of the four food groups there, man.

David McIntyre 8:40

Right. What are you drinking tonight?

Phillip Rich 8:44

Oh, well, I have, believe it or not, um less now that I found out I've been roasted on Instagram for uh choosing a different coffee last week. Um I am doing it again, believe it or not. I'm glutton for punishment at this point. But uh, I decided to do you okay. Uh let me give you a little scenario, dude. You know, we were running out of decaf from Peregrine, right? And I was like, I could order some, but I let me not be too indulgent. Let me just, you know, hey, uh since we're at the at the store, we were at Sprouts in Peachtree City. I said, you know what, I'm actually just gonna try one of the coffees that are here at Sprouts. So that's I mean, yeah, you know, I mean, if you can't live on the edge, you know, what are you doing? So um, but I I said I was looking for a decaf that and I found one called Forecast. It's a Swiss water decaf. Praise the Lord.

David McIntyre 9:46

Um now that just sounds important.

Phillip Rich 9:53

I'm not even sure what that means, but it does sound very important. But um, the one thing I want to emphasize more than anything else, not the nutty flavor, not the robust uh uh motion of whatever, but rather the fact that they put on the label this coffee fights climate change. I just want everybody to understand what's going on here.

Jon Dzyuba 10:20

If that's what it's supposed to do.

Phillip Rich 10:23

My thing is I if I'm being honest, it's a very and and Stephanie and I both agree on this, it's a very one-note coffee. Like, once you've had the first sip, there's no complexity, it's just a decaf, you know. Um, but I I'm not mad at it, but but I'm also not excited about it either, man. You know, okay.

Jon Dzyuba 10:45

I was gonna ask you, is that something that you like?

Phillip Rich 10:48

This like I don't, it's just uh and my thought is you know, y'all stick to just stop trying to fight climate change, man. Just make a little bit better decaf, and I think you'll be you'll be ready to rock and roll with in the big leagues.

Jon Dzyuba 11:04

So if you put just as much effort into making coffee as you do into changing the climate, or not changing the climate or saving the climate. There you go, saving not undoing the climate change, whatever. Right, you might have a good decaf, right?

Phillip Rich 11:20

Because can I tell you why though? Can I tell you the big thing that I've I've noticed with a lot of the the coffees that um I don't know that that that I've I've tried other than peregrine, they seem to burn their beans, like they they roast them too much. I don't know what it is, but like if I open a bag and I see those really dark beans that look like burnt, I'm like, oh boy, here we go. This is not gonna be good. And it's just that you know, too much acidity, man. I I can't I can't do it. So um that's why I think peregrine like they're true artisans, if you will, because they slow roast, at least that's what I believe they do. They slow roast their beans and um make it make it like nice and you know it's a product of patience, if you will. Praise God.

David McIntyre 12:10

You're right on that. There, I cannot stand to get a bag of coffee where they have burned the beans and they're still shilling that stuff off as coffee. They know they burnt those beans, yeah. Um you can smell it, so right, right, yeah. So tonight I am drinking um I'm I'm in the K Cup game tonight. I've been in my bag bag over the last several days, but I want K Cup tonight because uh I'm drinking salted caramel from Little. This is one that I've had on the show before. Um, I don't know if you could get this right now because it comes and goes as a special roast, but I will say of the cake ups and stuff that I've had, first of all, Letl does a really good job with their cake cups, and second of all, this um this salted caramel, I think it's a fall flavor, but it is it's quite enjoyable. So if you can get it, I highly recommend it. You may be able to find it on Amazon because they got the world stuff on it, so no telling. Um or you could find it potentially at Lethal, but definitely look for it in the fall. Um, actually, and when it comes out in the fall, it comes out in a fall mix, and the fall mix has maple pecan, a bourbon something, the salted caramel, and then a pumpkin spice. I've never tried their pumpkin spice because everybody else has pumpkin spice besides uh black rifle coffee. Their pumpkin spice makes me nervous. So, black rifle is the only one I drink right now. I hear it. All right, everybody, that's what's in the cup. Make sure you go find these and other coffees that we've shared. You can find some of our options that we've offered on Instagram. You can also see some of them on our website at Bible Brosbrew.com. So we're gonna get into our session tonight.

What Most People Mean By Church

David McIntyre 14:22

And um, you know, I I want to start by asking you both uh a really simple question, but you know, um just to expose something because tonight we're gonna be doing kind of a Christianity 101. And for some of you, you may have never heard or known what we're about to talk about. Others of you have known, and maybe you forgot. And by the time we finish this up, these episodes, I hope that you will have, especially these first two, as we're laying some groundwork, I hope you will have a deeper appreciation for what it means to be the church because when you understand it, it changes everything about how you how you view so many other things out there around the church. So, but my question for you guys is what do people usually mean when they say church?

Phillip Rich 15:27

Well, I mean, uh obviously the the number one thing that most people think of, if you just tell somebody, hey, think of the word church, what it what comes to your mind? They're gonna see a building with a steeple, you know, um something along those lines.

Jon Dzyuba 15:43

How about for you, John? I was just gonna say, I it's from from the people that I've seen, and especially out in the world that work, uh, oftentimes there's a lot of you know, this is just a place that you go to to hear somebody preach at you, tell you know, tell you how how great you're doing or how bad you're doing in your life, and then you know, you go on and carry on do the next thing, or it's a place you go to for Christmas and Easter, Easter, you know. That's pretty much it.

David McIntyre 16:13

That's so true, you know. People look at church. When they say the church, they mean an organization, sometimes they mean a denomination, yeah, a place that you attend, a place that you even have a membership at. And I'm still looking for that. I'm really looking for that. And so um, we look at the church as all of these things, but the reality is that the Bible describes believers of Christ as the church.

Many Members One Body

David McIntyre 16:50

That means the church is not an organization, it's not a at least it's not an organization first, and I'll explain that in just a minute. It's not a building first, it's not weekly events first. The church is a living people connected to Christ and to one another. Yeah, let me say that again. It's a living people connected to Christ and to one another. And so I thought we would look through some scriptures tonight. We thought we'd look through some scriptures tonight and begin to kind of put the pieces together, you know. First of all, I it's kind of like a question I want to help answer for you. Is it true that the building's not the church? We're the church, we the people are the church. And I thought we'd start off in 1 Corinthians chapter 12. Because in 1 Corinthians 12, if we look at we're gonna look at two sets of verses here. We're gonna look at verses 12 and 13, then we're gonna jump down and look at verse 27. But in verse 12, it says, For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one spirit we are all baptized into one body, Jews or Greeks, slave or free, and all were made to drink of one spirit. So we see here in this scripture, it starts by telling us that the body is one and it is made up of many members.

unknown 18:38

Right.

David McIntyre 18:38

And then it goes on to tell us that um that though many uh we are one body, so it is with Christ. So it gives the example that though there be many parts, we are one. And it's you know, it's even in one sense, and I'm not gonna get into it now, but it's like the mystery of the Trinity. People often don't understand how three can be one. And in the similar sense, it's this concept that the church is many of us who are born again in Christ are one, yet we are individual parts, and I'll prove it to you with verse 27, which says, Now you are the body of Christ, and individually members of it. Yeah, now, John, will you will you pull up the amplified version of this real quick for me? Because I want you to see a really interesting clarification here in verse 27. It says, uh, let me see if I see there we go. Now you collectively are Christ's body, and individually you are members of it, each with his own special purpose and function. Wow. So it's letting us know that we can be one collective, yet we are also individual with our own purpose and function. And you'll see if you read through First Corinthians 12, you'll see so many of our special functions and our special giftings that we all bring to the body that make all the pieces one big whole. And then we'll talk about Christ being the head of that, but I'll stop there for a minute. Philip, talk about it for a minute.

Phillip Rich 20:48

Man, this this uh passage in First Corinthians 12 is so fascinating to me, man, because you know, Paul really leans into that whole thing about um the the the body analogy. And if you think about it, it's such a I mean, it's such an amazing thing. Like, you know, the you know, we have a body, um, there's parts to our body, and and the elbow can't do what the ear can do, you know. Um my nose can't do what my my left knee can do, right? You know, that they're all part of the same body, but they're they're different functions, different characteristics, uh, yet they all work together uh to help us be a whole person walking around just doing what we do every day. And there's so much involved in that, just even the wisdom God put into the body, the intelligence he programmed into the body, the body can heal itself. You know, if you have a paper cut or something else, or even break a bone, you know, you can that that bone's gonna regrow. How in the world does that happen except by the hand of God, you know, like like the the the things that He programmed into our DNA to help us uh uh you know do heal and self repair? And that type of thing. So I to me, like this analogy, because Paul says, you know, if just because I'm I'm I'm the hand, I can't say that I don't need my foot, you know, and that type of thing. It's it's um it's it's important for us to understand that we as members of the body of Christ, you know, we have our the the lane that God has blessed us to be in.

unknown 22:25

Yeah.

Phillip Rich 22:25

And my lane may not be someone else's lane, you know. Um, my function and my call and my gifting may not be anything like the very next person who's in the body of Christ as well. And so we got to learn how to respect and understand how important it is that uh we've been fashioned in a way by God for a specific purpose, each one of us. There's not a single useless part of the body, right? Um, this is something I like. I don't know if you guys remember, there used to be a thing that went around the scientific community called vestigial organs. Anyone remember this thing that was happening way back in the day? And they believed it's been a good a few years, but they used to believe that like things like the appendix or other things like that had no function, that they were vestigial organs, like things that were left over from evolution that just now uh you know are just kind of hanging around in one day in the in you know another million years, they'll eventually fade off out of human bodies. Uh, now we're finding out that that was one of the most unsophisticated and ridiculous things to think about the human body, because now, due to microbiology, due to DNA study, all those different things that are out there now, the scientific breakthroughs, we have we're discovering that in the immense complexity of the human body, where everything is needed, even what they used to call junk DNA. They're finding out that junk DNA has a very important purpose. It's actually a misnomer to call it junk DNA. So um this all kind of relates as well for us as as members of the body of Christ. There's no such thing as uh a useless member of the body. Everybody has a purpose within the body of Christ. Um, and just because your purpose isn't the same as the one that that's for me, or the the individual assignments might be different, we all do still need each other to um to grow up into the like like Ephesians 4 talks about grow up into a perfect man uh to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, is what he says. So um I, you know, anyway, I've I there's a lot more I could say, but I'm I'm uh I'm gonna press the pause button for a second.

David McIntyre 24:41

Yeah, and I just want to back up a little bit to verse 25 and 26. Um and maybe even like um a little bit of 24, the last part, it says, but God has so compile composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, um, that there may be no division in the body, what Philip was just talking about, but that the members may have the same care for one another. If one member suffers, all suffer together. If one member is honored, all rejoice together. So not only are we members of the same body, and we can't think because I'm an ear, I'm this, and because I'm a foot, I'm that, but rather regardless of what our special functions are and the things that we God gives each one of us to do, if you hurt as a member of the body of Christ, if you suffer, I suffer. So we're not at this thing by ourselves, yeah. And that's an encryption that's gonna be a that's gonna come back around for us, you guys, um, because it's going to have something to do with how you see the church as we continue to carry on the conversation. Remember, you are one body, many parts, but an individual. And if you look at Romans 12, verses 4 and 5, it basically tells you the same thing. And if you look at here at 1 Corinthians 12 and you'll look at Romans 12, you'll see they're very similar in what they're communicating, but there is also a little bit of difference that makes it worth you reading both of them. But I want to jump over to Ephesians chapter 1 and look at verse 22 and 23.

Jesus Leads As The Head

David McIntyre 26:43

I mean, Paul does uh he does, and Paul and others, you'll see Peter and others here in just a minute, they do such a good and thorough job of making this very clear. If you look at verses 22 and 23 of Ephesians chapter um one, it says, I'm gonna go for ver uh I love this section. Can I just read from 15 real quick? Yeah, go for it. I'll read fast. I'll read fast. For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints. I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him, having the eyes of your heart, so King James says, having the eyes of your understanding be enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glory, glorious inheritance in the saints, and what is the great what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe according to the working of his great might, that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at the right hand, at his right hand in heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in the one to come. Now, check it out, and he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all and all. So here in Ephesians, Paul clearly establishes that not only is Christ superior to everything, but he is also the head over the body, and the body is us, the church, the church is Christ's body. So let me ask you a question: how can the body function apart from the head? Come on, bro, it can't, and we that's that's why we get in trouble in the church building because so many of us, the pastors, the leaders sometimes, the members in the pews, everybody's trying to go somewhere separate from the head. And if the head is leading us, then our gatherings become something completely different. But again, I just want to establish here now. We understand not only do we see that we're the body, but we now realize that this body is without not without a head, and the head is Christ. Okay, Philip, it's all yours.

Phillip Rich 30:01

Man, this this passage, dude, it's one of my favorites. Like I could say that about all of them, honestly, but but this one here, because it's it talks about his absolute authority and dominion. Um, he said it in Matthew 28 after he rose from the dead. He said, Look, all authority, all dominion has been given into my into my hands, you know, and over and right here it's just another confirmation of that. But I love what it says down there. Um, it says he gave, uh I think it's in verse, uh, if you don't mind, put it back up. Thanks, John. Uh, he God put all things under Jesus' feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body. He gave Jesus as the head over all things to the church. Now think about that. He gave Jesus to be head over all things to the church. And now he is the head over the church, but it says head over all things to the church. You know, like that there's there's in other words, everything that's within the scope of Jesus' dominion is also within the scope of the church's dominion, and that's a huge thing. Like he gave us through his name that same authority in the earth, if we would but use it, you know. Um I wanted I wanted to point something out too, because I I was thinking about it uh a little bit earlier.

Ecclesia Means Called Out People

Phillip Rich 31:29

The actual word church, if you look it up in the Greek, it's the word um ecclesia, yeah. And the word ecclesia means those who have been called out or the called out ones.

David McIntyre 31:44

Like if you can imagine I just say something right there, Philip.

Phillip Rich 31:47

Please go ahead.

David McIntyre 31:48

That clearly means the church can't be a building.

Phillip Rich 31:52

Come on now.

David McIntyre 31:53

Because a building is not a those, and the building is not called out.

Phillip Rich 31:58

Come on, that's very eliminates that spot on, man. Spot on. It's referring to a people, it's referring to a body of people. Um, and if you think about it, like imagine on a like back in PE class, you know, we used to do this thing. This is a long time ago, man. Forgive my 80s uh references, dude. But back in PE class, we would do this thing where like if you had to play dodgeball, you know, the they would line everybody up and then they'd call certain people, like everybody had a number, okay, number three, number eight, number 12, you know, and they'd name it, and then they would make a team of people for dodgeball out of the people that were called out. That's exactly how it is, like with what he's referring to here. We've been called out, and you might be wondering, well, how what what are we called out from? Well, he tells us in First Peter, he says, You've been called out of darkness into his marvelous light. You know, so it's a thing of once you've accepted Jesus, once you've received him as your Lord and Savior, you're literally called out of uh that that the dominion of the enemy, the the dominion of sin, the dominion of being in a sinful state. You're called out of that sinful state over into a state where you now have been you've you've been clothed with his righteousness, right? So you're called out of those things. Out of the I think in Colossians 1, it says you've been delivered out of the power of darkness and translated into the kingdom of his dear son. So it it it's a it's honestly it's a a place of privilege. I don't think that we fully understand that sometimes, but it's a place of privilege, man. Um, it says that you know, at once we were not a people, but now we're the people of God. It once there was one time where we had not obtained mercy, but now we have. It's all in 1 Peter 1. It's like, dude, for those who have accepted the gift of salvation that God has offered to everybody, those who have accepted it and said, Yes, I'm gonna personally appropriate this gift in my life, you're now part of the called out ones, and you now belong to Him, dude. And that that is a I mean, that that's a that's we can't measure how valuable that is. Praise God.

David McIntyre 34:14

That's good for you. And just remember, when God, when you're called out regarding spiritual things, you're never just called out, you're always called out into something, into something.

Phillip Rich 34:27

There you go.

David McIntyre 34:28

And not only are you called out in out of darkness into the marvelous light, into righteousness, but you're called out into this body, yes, yeah. So you it's just it's a beautiful thing, it's a beautiful thing. Now, I I thought, you know, the church. Now you begin to see something. The church has unity and diversity in it. I mean, just think of all the different people and gifts and callings that are in this body, yeah. And we share this common the common ground that makes us all a part of this body is our belief and acceptance of Christ Jesus as Lord. That's right. Jesus' Lordship makes us a part of this body, and then we see that the Holy Spirit is the one who brings us into this body, and you're gonna see in just a minute that that's an important people. So that means that church membership is not about your name being on a roll somewhere, yeah. You're just you know, I know some churches, and again, I haven't seen biblically where this is. Um, and I'm not so I'm not denouncing it, I'm just telling you, I've never seen biblically where it is. But this concept of going to a church and filling out a form, and then you being officially welcomed to the church as a member and added on to the membership roles, right? That's that's an interesting thing because the moment you got born again, you became the church. Not only are you the little church individually, but you're part of the bigger church collectively, yeah. So you're not waiting for some church to tell you you're accepted as a member, you were accepted the moment you accepted Jesus. Come on, and that's the defining factor in your church membership. Now, your affiliation with a gathering place is a whole nother ball game, right? Right, and we'll talk we'll talk about that in a little bit. I want to look at another verse here.

Membership Is Not A Sign-Up

David McIntyre 36:54

I want to look at uh Colossians 1:18. I just want to just really briefly, I want to connect you with Paul once again, reinforcing the reality that Christ is the head, we're the body, and what he did for the body. In verse 18, it says, uh uh, I'm gonna read 15 real quick again. He talking about Christ is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him, Christ, all things were created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible. Whether they be thrones, whether they be dominions, whether they be rulers or authorities, all things were created through him, and he is before all things, and he is in all things, and in him, sorry, and in him all things hold together. Listen, and he is the head of the body, the church, he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. So part of the reason why Christ is the head of the church is once again establishing his preeminence, yes, for all of us to see. And then when you look down at verse 24, he goes on to say, Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is the church. Yeah, so the Bible says, out of the mouth of two or three witnesses, let all things be established. Well, okay, so we got one witness right now, and that witness is Paul. But in multiple places, we're seeing him say this. So let's let's uh let's keep going. Let's look at one more thing here. Let's bounce back to well, Philip, you want to take a moment there?

Phillip Rich 39:03

Sorry, I got stuck on mute for a second there. Um, no, with this Colossian scripture, uh, I love what you said, David. Like that whole passage from like verse 15 uh through 24, you see the the position that Jesus holds uh in God's mind, in God's you know, macro view, and the fact that we're a part of him. Um we have to, um, and and I might be getting ahead of what we're trying to say right now, but we have to wake up to our position in Christ as believers. I thought I think that we haven't yet fully really grasped it. I'm still working on it. I've been, you know, I'm I'll be saved for 30 years in this coming uh in a in a couple of weeks. And yet I'm just now still beginning to grasp the the value that God has placed on us, you know, now that he's brought us into Christ and into the kingdom. Um who we are in him is something I'm telling you that that that could be studied for another 30 or 50 years, and we still wouldn't scratch the surface of it, man. But we as believers in him, we are members of his body, and the exalted place that he has in God's uh kingdom, it says in Ephesians that we've been raised up together with him and we've been made to sit with him in the heavenly realm. So there's there's a whole element of this where God's put you in a position that is mind-boggling as a member of his body, as a member of the church. And and like I think I think that's why it's important that we continue to to talk about this because we got to get out of that mindset of church being a building, church being a gathering place, no, church being the living, breathing body of Christ, all the components that make up who Jesus is, uh we're part of that now because we're in him. So um just just some thoughts there, man.

David McIntyre 41:06

That's good, Philip. And I'm I'm gonna jump back, you know, because if you look at that Romans 12, you also see it in First Corinthians 12. One of the things that it tells us not only are we not only are we bar members part of the bot, we are the body of Christ, we are also members of one another. Right? In other words, we're connected and we're affiliated with one another. And one thing that means is that Christianity then is not meant to be lived in isolation. There you go. We're not meant to walk this thing out, you know, alone. Um, there's I saw something earlier that says, um, there's no healthy version of me and Jesus, but I don't need his people. You that that can't be that can't be the case when especially when we are all part of the same body. And then there's I think it's Roman 12 that I mean first Corinthians 12 that talks about each joint fit fitted together and supplying to one another. So we're meant to be connected, we're meant to be supplying to one another, giving each other what one another needs, and it creates a wholeness in the body that helps us to be what we're supposed to be. And so if we're disconnected from that, you know, you begin to say that you know, that's like having a disconnected body part. And then how does that work? It doesn't. So remember, we are not only part of one another, we're not only part of the body of Christ, but we are members of one another. Our connection is deep as believers, and we should see that depth in our everyday lives. So I now want to take us over into this next segment, and that is something else, and I and I'm gonna tell you how I got here because Philip, I almost I almost I started to say to myself, okay, the difference here is we are the body of Christ, Christ is the head, and we go to the temple, but then I started thinking about the scripture, and it was like nay nay. That is not so and so now I want us to take us another step forward and see just how deep and wide this goes.

You Are God’s Temple

David McIntyre 43:49

So let's look at if we could, let's look at uh oh, let's look at first Corinthians three, verse 16 and 17, John. And let me just pull it up here and biggie size it so I can read it. First th this is it couldn't get any clearer than here. It says, Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God dwells in you? I'm gonna tell you something really interesting about that in a minute. If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him, for God's temple is holy, and you are that temple. Plain as day. So people can talk about going to temple, the Jewish church. And that's still wrong because you're also the temple. Not only are you the body, but you're the temple, and let me tell you why you're the temple, because you are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Come on, come on, God's presence dwells in the temple.

Phillip Rich 45:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David McIntyre 45:15

You are that temple.

Phillip Rich 45:18

Praise God.

David McIntyre 45:20

And so you just have to, you just have to re just think about how deep this is. Christ is the head, I am the body, collectively, the body, individually, I'm the body, and the body is the church. And not only am I the church, but I am also the temple of God by way of his holy spirit. My goodness, this is this is this is wild. Go ahead and add it, Philip.

Phillip Rich 45:52

Man, it makes me think of Revelation, um, which is this is the most one of the most amazing things when you when you start to like really just think on it. The the end goal, and I I forgot what that exact verse is, but it's near the end of the book of Revelation. After everything's been done, after all the crazy stuff happens, and all the apocalyptic stuff takes place. Finally, it says, and behold, God's tabernacle is with man. That's the ultimate goal of this whole thing, is that God wants to dwell with us, wants to dwell in us, he wants to be our God, he wants us to be his people. It's always been that way. He started it out with you know Moses and the Israelites in the desert. He tried to set that uh set that vision for them, you know. Hey, I want you to build me a sanctuary, a place where I can dwell among you. So they they did those things, and um, but of course, you know, it was hard for them to stay on the track. So they they they got into disobedience, they got into idolatry, did some crazy stuff, and God had to withdraw his presence from them. But he wanted something that would be so much bigger and so much better than just uh having a building where he could dwell, you know, like the Ark of the Covenant was contained in that sanctuary, and that's where they would go to get into the presence of God. But and and if you think about it, in the time that this was written when Paul was uh writing the this letter to the Corinthians, temples were everywhere. Yeah, there was a temple to Zeus, a temple to Diana, a temple to Apollo. I mean, there was temples everywhere all over the Roman Empire, and they were designed to be places where people could supposedly meet deity of some kind. And in I think it's in the uh Acts 7. I looked it up earlier. Paul was talking to those guys, I think, at Mars Hill, and he said, uh, the most high doesn't dwell in temples made with hands. No, that was never God's intention for for people to just always go to a building to get into his presence. He was like, I want to be able to dwell in you to for my presence to be one with your presence, you know, with your spirit. And actually, at the same book, 1 Corinthians in chapter 6, it says, He that's joined to the Lord is one spirit. Like David, you were sitting you said it, man. This thing goes a lot deeper than we realize, man. God, I mean, he he wants that level of companionship and fellowship that truly is a oneness with his creation.

David McIntyre 48:34

Yeah, that's good, Philip. And you know, the reason I'm you know, I'm holding my mule a little bit right now. Hold the mule, dude. Uh, and not to not get excited, but the reason why I'm exciting, I get excited about it because number one, this means God really wants me. Do you you understand what I'm saying? In other words, that he was so purposeful about what he did that once I got born again and got in line with him, he was like, Now let me help to assure you and settle in you that you belong to me. Come on, I'm gonna make you a part of my body, even though your body is a whole, the body is a whole, you're still an individual, but you're still a part of my body, and then I'm going to indwell you with my Holy Spirit and make you the temple of the living God, which means Jesus didn't die for a building. Yeah, so that can't be the church. He died for his people. So we've got to throw away this thought that the church is the building, that the church that we, you know, that the temple, not that the church, yeah, that the church is the building, that the temple is a building. And you you have to realize this means the church is loved, it's cleansed, it's sanctified by Christ. So then now, when you think about that, just think for a second. Maybe we ought not to speak so loosely about the church the way we talk about it. Wow, maybe we just need to back up a little bit before we start running the church down. Because now you run down the church, you run down people in the church, just recognize you're running down yourself. Yeah, because you all are still one, you're interconnected, feeding off of one another because you need one another. Yeah, and you don't all of a sudden get to pop out of the body, become an individual, and be like, girl, did you see so-and-so up there in the body, acting like a fool? Yeah, girl, I saw her. I can't deal with that. You know, I'm just gonna stay away from her, and then you try to you try to jump back in the body and act like nothing happened. You can't you can't do it, so you gotta be careful about now. This I was just I've been studying and reading about judge about judging, right? In Hebrews chapter five. And one of the things Hebrews chapter five says about judging, it reminds us we ought to be careful because when we start judging, it indicates that we have lost perspective of the divine. If you have the mindset we are one, and when I run them down, I run me down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, look, that doesn't mean there are not real problems in the church, and we're gonna talk about some of those real problems, but the church is loved by Christ, and we've got to approach dealing with some of these problems from a little bit of a different, a different way, a different perspective. So, um, I wrote this note down too, Philip. It says the Bible not only calls believers the body of Christ, it also calls believers the temple of God. It is important because in the old testament, the temple was placed, was the place associated with God's presence. But under the new covenant, God's presence dwells in his people by the Holy Spirit.

Phillip Rich 52:40

Come on, man. That's it.

Your Body Is Not Your Own

David McIntyre 52:43

We we we're really we're really in a we're again when you don't know this, you're oblivious. It doesn't it doesn't register with you, it doesn't sit with you. And that way, when you don't understand it, it can't change your behavior. Right, right. But when you become aware of it and when you become mindful of it, then it also begins to help regulate your behavior. It regulates, it helps to regulate that mouth, yeah. And it even, if you will allow it, help you to regulate your thinking. Yeah, so you we need to understand these things. Um I want to look at uh can we look at another verse? Is that okay?

Phillip Rich 53:36

Absolutely.

David McIntyre 53:38

Can we look at um we were just uh we were just at uh First Corinthians six, right? First First Corinthians three, right? Right, right. Can we look at verse six? I mean chapter six again, it reinforces the same thought in verses 19 and 20. It just says it a little differently. Paul says here in verse 19, or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own. Come on, man, you are bought with a price, so glorify God in your body.

Phillip Rich 54:23

Talk about that and this one here. Um, it's interesting too because in the context of what he was talking about, he was talking about you know, sleeping around. He was saying, you know, uh, you know, don't go out there you're hooking up with prostitutes, man. You know why? Because why would I join the members of Christ with the members of a prostitute? You know what I mean? There's a whole thing there. I won't get too deep into it right now, but um, he was talking about, but it's important, man, the the the reverence we should have for our own body, honestly. Um, you'll you'll look at at your body differently when you understand that it is the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit. I don't need to trash it up with a bunch of stuff that's gonna ruin it, you know. I mean, some that could be drugs, that could be promiscuous sex everywhere. You know, there's a lot of different ways you can trash up your body. Um, but if you understand what you have, if you understand what God, you know, where God dwells, then you'll think twice about some maybe even some of the things you're putting in your body, right? Um this is one of the reasons why, because there's always been debates about, you know, uh, is smoking a sin? You know, is drinking a sin and things like that. And we could definitely go down some some rabbit trails with that. But I always try to go back to this this verse here to me is a good indication. Like, if I know that something's gonna pollute my body, should I do it? You know, um and again, not to put anybody in bondage, but it is something to think about. It's something to think about because your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, and He has made it plain in that in that chapter right there. He's like, flee fornication. Every other sin that a person commits is kind of independent of the body, but if you commit fornication, you're sinning against your own body. Yeah, that's heavy, man. You know, uh I again this I think the issue is a lot of times we don't see things how God sees them, and that is a problem, you know. That that's the reason why we may not understand sometimes uh why that certain behaviors are things that God cannot endorse. You know, it's because we're not seeing things how he sees them. But if we get to that place where we do, then we might we might think twice about some of the stuff we do, especially what we do with our body.

David McIntyre 56:52

Yeah. And Philip, can I throw in on top of that? You were talking about what we put in our body, but remember what Jesus said in Matthew 15. Uh in Matthew 15, 11, he reminds us it's not what goes into your mouth that defiles you, right? You're defiled by the words and the things that come out of your mouth. Come on, man. Yeah, so we're talking about all manner of in and out of that body, exactly. And just remember, you know, and it's like when we when we realize that we are we are the temple of God, that we are the body of Christ, then um, I mean, just everything changes, and we don't we don't deal well with idolatry and all of that other stuff because when you know who you belong to, you can't just give yourself over to any old thing. You have to become very cautious about that, and you have to be thoughtful about the things that you say yes to and the things you yield yourself to and give yourself over to. Uh, that's part of what makes idolatry so bad is God doesn't want anything else having lordship over you but Him. That's right, that's right, and when you give the trees room because you're doing all that tree hugging and whatnot, it's a problem for the Lord. He's not even gonna have a tree. Look, the Lord has had to deal with tree idolatry forever, and I think he's probably just over it from making idols out of trees and ashra poles and all of that good stuff. He is so over y'all in idolizing trees. Let it go. Oh man, let it go, Jesus. Let it go. Let's look at let's look at 2 Corinthians 6. Uh, another good one. Because this one, remember, you're the body of Christ, you are the church, you're the temple of God. And verse 16 in 2nd Corinthians 6 says, if all of that is true, and it doesn't say that, that's the David McIntyre add-on. What agreement has the temple of God with idols?

Phillip Rich 59:18

Uh oh.

David McIntyre 59:20

For we are the temple of the living God, as God said, I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Phillip Rich 59:34

Amen.

David McIntyre 59:36

First of all, look at God's commitment in that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then wonder why throughout time, despite God's commitment to us, we have repeatedly chosen the idols over God. Wow. It it's mind-boggling when you look at it from this perspective.

Phillip Rich 59:59

That's right, dude.

David McIntyre 1:00:02

Any thoughts on that, Philip, before I jump forward a little bit more?

Phillip Rich 1:00:06

No, just um we see the the type of seriousness that God approaches this with versus our flippancy, you know, that we we treat things with. And I I I hate to sound like a broken record, but we it goes back to us not seeing things how God sees them.

David McIntyre 1:00:24

Yeah.

Phillip Rich 1:00:24

And if and this is why it's so important to do what Ephesians 1 talked about. You read you read it earlier, David, when Paul prayed, he said, I pray that that God will give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him, so that the eyes of your understanding would be enlightened. And I think part of that, your eye, the eyes of your heart being opened and flooded with light, it helps you to see things as God sees them. I think that's part of what revelation is. I actually I remember reading that in um uh uh a book by Watchman Me. He said, Revelation is simply seeing things how God has seen them the whole time. And I was like, wow, that's good, man. That's really good. Um I if you have the heavenly perspective, God's perspective, as he's laid out in his word, um, and that becomes your first go-to, then you'll you'll start to approach things with a different type of you know, reverence, a different type of respect. Um, including, you know, like like we've been talking about tonight about the body of Christ and how we treat each other and uh how we treat our own bodies and all that type of thing. Learning how to see things how God sees them, I think, is a very, very key thing um to help you kind of progress uh in your spiritual walk for sure.

Built Together As God’s Household

David McIntyre 1:01:40

That's good, Philip. John, let's jump over real quickly, just as a last verse here, Ephesians chapter 2. And let's look at verses 19 through 22. And I want you to just see something else here, and once again, it's putting in perspective how God sees us now that we are part of his body. So then you are no longer, verse 19. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God. So he's called it the church, he's called it the body. Now we see him calling it the house of household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ hims, Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure being joined together grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him, you are all you are all you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit. So look at that, he's building you as an individual, verse 22, and verse 21. We're seeing that the whole structure is being made a temple, so individual temples become a greater temple. Yeah, God says, This is my household, and guess what happens naturally in the temple? There are givings of the priest to the work of the ministry, they offer to God, they sacrifice. Well, back in the day, they sacrificed, we don't do sacrifices anymore, but we are doing the work of the ministry as high priest before God, because we're the temple of God. All of that happens within us. So to me, and just fix me if I'm wrong here, to me, when I bring prayer to God, it's as if I, the temple of God, am offering the work of the high priest before God by offering God my prayer, offering God my praise, which is an incense to him, by offering God my time, my giving, even by being still and listening to him and hearing his instruction to guide and lead me into all truth. You be I hope you begin to see everything flips. Yeah, yeah. Everything flips when you see this. Philip, you have your thoughts on that?

Phillip Rich 1:04:21

Yeah, it's just another witness right here. In in, you know, all it's all through Paul's letters, all through uh Peter talks about it, but just because Peter says, you know, um, we're we're we're made of a house made of lively stones. I think that's what he called it uh in First Peter. And it's just this idea once again of all the members of his body, all the people who have received Jesus as their Lord, now becoming a living, breathing organism that represents and embodies the body of Christ. You know, um that that's uh it it's it's like you've been saying, David, it's mind-blowing, it's mind-boggling the the privilege that we have to be a part of his body, to be called by his name. That's something that we, you know, if you really, really think on it, it's nothing to take lightly, man, because there was a time in this earth where there was no revelation of who God really was. You know, there was a lot of idolatry, a lot of you know, people just making stuff up, like you said earlier, the tree situation, you know, people making up gods. Um, and and nobody nobody had any real knowledge of who the actual God was. But then finally, God brings the law first and begins to reveal himself to mankind. And we all know that he had to do it in small doses because we were so sinful and so completely opposite, out of alignment with him and his character, that he had to kind of you know walk us into it gently. Then finally, 2,000 years ago, Jesus shows up and gives us the complete. Revelation of who God is. He said in John 14, he that has seen me has seen the Father. You know, and we thought, man, of course, that was like an earth-changing event. Matter of fact, we we've changed our dating system based on you know what time he was here. Um, but that wasn't even the end of it. He meant for it to continue by way of him dwelling in each one of us, and that is a huge, huge thing when you when you think about it.

Why Church Sin Hits Different

David McIntyre 1:06:30

Well, Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Phillip Rich 1:06:33

There you go, bro. Praise God.

David McIntyre 1:06:36

I just want to say to you that if the church is God's temple, which we've now established it is, then how we treat the church matters deeply. Yes, yeah, that means division matters. Let's check this out because I'm gonna talk about mention some of the things that we're struggling with in the gathering place right now. Division matters, pride matters, false teaching matters, abuse matters, favoritism matters, power games that are played in the pulpit and in the pews, all of that stuff matters, and because we're not just managing an organization, we're handling what God calls holy, and we've got to begin to change how we govern ourselves and how we deal with one another, because if we're not honoring God and how we're handling his body, then we're gonna find ourselves at odds with him, and that is problematic for your walk with the Lord.

A Practice For Changing Your Mindset

David McIntyre 1:07:46

We're gonna stop right there. We are um this has gotten this has been good, it's been good to me, and I hope it's been useful and beneficial to you, and that you're beginning to see this. And you yeah, I've said enough, we've talked enough. Um next week, we're going to um we're gonna dig in even further, and we're gonna talk about the difference between being the church and going to church. And those are two very different things, two very different thought processes. But I just want to ask you maybe this week, just to practice, just to practice understanding this and and taking it into yourself and thinking about it more deeply. This week, why don't you consider calling your church the gathering place rather than the church? And refer to yourself as the church, or at least think and be mindful of the thought that when you say, I gotta go to the church, and say, Oh, you might huck, I gotta go to myself. There's a difference here to begin to reshape how you think about this thing, and I promise if you reshape how you think about yourself being the church and the temple of God, then you'll begin to reshape all the pieces around it, including how you treat and see others. Philip, any final thoughts?

Phillip Rich 1:09:19

Man, I feel like I've said plenty tonight, man. I just I just uh I recommend that for those of y'all who are listening to dig into 1 Corinthians 12, dig into the scriptures we covered, Ephesians 1, uh 1 Corinthians 3, and really just start to get that concept of the body of Christ and what it means to be a part of his body. Um highly, highly recommend.

David McIntyre 1:09:42

Hey, another one that you can add to that list is first Peter, um, First Peter 2, 4 and 5. It talks about how we are living stones. There we go. This body is alive, this thing is alive, it's not it's not a dead building. So all right, guys. Uh on behalf of Philip and John, I bid thee farewell. Uh, don't forget to connect with us on uh social

Subscribe And Stay Connected

David McIntyre 1:10:08

media. Please like and subscribe, it really helps us. And until next time, off eaters.

Phillip Rich 1:10:20

Goodbye.