Bible, Bros & Brew
Bible, Bros, & Brew is all about helping you navigate your relationship with God in practical, real-life ways. Hosts David and Phil dig into scripture—'chopping up the word'—and bring it to life with insights you can actually use every day. And while they’re at it, they share their favorite 'brews'—don’t worry, it’s not booze! Just a solid lineup of classic coffees and teas to keep the conversations flowing.
Bible, Bros & Brew
Pride and Hypocrisy: Jesus’ Warning About the Pharisees (Matthew 23:1–14)
Pride doesn’t always shout—it often hides behind religion, titles, and “good intentions.” In this week’s episode of Bible, Bros & Brew, David, Phil, and Ryan unpack Matthew 23:1–14, where Jesus delivers one of His most direct rebukes: calling out the Pharisees for hypocrisy, arrogance, and spiritual pride.
Join us as we explore:
☕ How pride disguises itself as holiness and status
📖 Why Jesus warned believers to “do what they say, not what they do”
💬 What real humility looks like in our daily walk with Christ
🙏 The difference between serving for God’s glory vs. seeking human applause
We also connect these truths to modern life, and how pride shows up at work, in ministry, and even in how we handle correction. This is a conversation for anyone serious about growing in humility, discernment, and spiritual maturity.
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Pride can be subtle. And over the last few days or last few weeks, we've been talking about the subtlety of pride. But at the same time that it can be subtle, it can be wide and out in the open for everybody to see. And we've talked a little bit about that. So far, we've seen Nebuchadnezzar, who absolutely gave himself the credit for all that God did. Then we saw the rich, the uh prodigal son, who lost himself and wanting it his way, and ran into pride and how it led to his fall, just like Nebuchadnezzar experienced his fall. This week, Jesus has something to say to all of you who are following about the Pharisees and Sadducees and how you should govern yourselves with them. And then we're going to get down to the real thing, the answer to pride, which is humility. Up next on Bible Bros and Brew. I've also got with me the John, John Johnson, and we've also got Ryan Ryanson, uh, just to make sure that everybody's out there. Hey, we're so glad that you guys have joined us. We've been enjoying this conversation around pride, and by enjoying, I sometimes mean we've been having to come and deal with ourselves and get our lives right throughout the week so that we can come and talk to you more about it because pride. And uh, so we've enjoyed this conversation, you know. As I said in the opening, pride is subtle, pride can be subtle, it can also be right out there, but so much of what the believer deals with when it comes to pride is very subtle, and it kind of has a way of slipping up on you if you're not careful. And we've talked about some of the things like the daily self-checks that we have to do in order to make sure that we stay in a good place with God and that we're not allowing pride to take his place in our lives. But today I want to share with you out of Matthew chapter 23 the advice that Jesus gave to the people in that day about how they should see and do what the Pharisees instruct them versus what they see the Pharisees do. It's entertaining and it's eye-opening, and it's going to lead us to deeper conversation. But before we do that, let's take a moment and talk about what's in the cup. I'm going to start with you, Philip, today. What are you drinking?
Phillip:My brother, let me tell you about an amazing coffee that has come across my purview. This is the newest Ethiopia from my friends at Peregrine, our friends at Peregrine. Um, I'm probably gonna screw my camera up by doing this. It's the Ethiopia Ayla Bombe. Yes, I had to put that stank on there. Um I can't really get that to focus.
Jon:We can see it, we see it. We can fix it in place.
Phillip:Okay, then yeah, sorry, I was probably a little too committed to that, but that's okay. Um now you're in the witness protection program.
Jon:Yes, no, I'm drinking purven.
Phillip:Yes, yes. I started drinking purven about five years ago. Um, so sorry, that was terrible, but it has notes of pomelo, which I didn't even know what that was, but I found out it's a yeah, thank you. Just taking off of my blurry self. Um, it's a um large melon type fruit, and then it has notes of jasmine soda and notes of peach cobbler.
Ryan:Yes, you know, Phil is the John the Baptist of coffee. Well, and and what what exactly uh in what John the Baptist, every single message was the same.
Phillip:Repent of the nice every week it's peregrine coffee, yes, it's the same is correct, dude. I will say though, this Ethiopia, like every time Peregrine comes out with an Ethiopian coffee, it is a banger. They all the coffees are bangers, but uh just something about the Ethiopian coffees have really captured my heart and my taste buds. So um but anyway, so yeah, uh shout out to Peregrine once again. Let's see, John, if you could please relieve the audience of my voice.
Jon:Uh good people of Bible Bros and Brew. Um I feel like I should point this out. I know we talked about fall flavors, and I know I'm just it's just occurring to my mind that I just broke all the rules that we talked about last week. But this coffee is so cool. I kind of don't care. Like, dude, check this out. I got Bones Coffee. It's called what the fluff. It's oh boy, careful. It's we're good, we're safe here. It's okay. We're good. It's bones coffee. They put it in the in the store, so obviously it has to be safe. But dude, this thing is like I'm I feel like it's already obvious, but I feel like I was definitely drawn by the cool packaging that I had to get it. Uh, and then I found out that it's actually cotton candy coffee. What? Which is good, it is pretty good. It does taste like cotton candy, it's like a medium roast, but uh cool, it's fun, not fall, but it's good coffee. It has my cart like my heart, excuse me, my heart like pumping just a little bit. It's it's uh it's it works. I'll say it that way too. It definitely works, but I don't know. I got excited just because it looked so cool, and there's a second one, but I'll bring it out next week, and then I'll get back onto the fall grind. But it was really fun. The the the packaging definitely caught my eye, and the coffee was didn't disappoint. I'll say it that way. Nice, nice, Mr. Mr. Ryan. What you got going on, Mr. Keats?
Ryan:I'm bringing back um the uh lone pine coffee roasters from last week. That was rough, so it's really good. Um it's been good. The 10 pan alle blend. I don't know what that means, but sounds good. But for the fall part, um, I have made a little pumpkin oatmeal chocolate chip. Come on, come on, brother.
David:Look at you, look at you bringing snacks to the table.
Jon:That's what I'm talking about. You know, for someone who criticized about the right time for fall to come around, you sure did make up for it. I mean, that that was for sure.
Ryan:Well, that's cool. So, like, I yeah, no, I go out. I'm all or nothing, but you can't be you can't run a marathon all the time, you know what I mean? We gotta take a break. I mean, come on, so yeah, no.
David:Well, congratulations to for coming to the fall, Ryan.
Phillip:Yes, it is October 1st. Yeah, yes, that's right, man. And you know, Ryan, by the way, dude, I did find out because I was curious about the whole 10 pan alley thing. Like, what the heck does that mean? So I looked it up, and sure enough, dude, it's interesting. It was a like a musical movement kind of a thing back in like the I think the 20s, like tens or 20s, there was a uh area of New York City where they had all that ragtime piano kind of stuff, you know, back in the day. And so they they had like a lot of the buildings in that one little spot where they had people inside that were practicing that music all the time. And the the neighbors and stuff said it sounded like a bunch of tin pans clanging around, so they called it Tin Pan Alley for that reason. So look at Philip. Yeah, dude. I I I one of my I guess a rare talent, I guess, is researching completely pointless things. It's fun to do, man.
Ryan:So Phil, if you don't do it, how are we gonna know that 911 wasn't right, dude?
Phillip:Thank you for that. But anyway, David, how about you, man? What is in your cup, sir?
David:Well, Phil, tonight I'd like to come to the table with a new roast for the fall. I'm starting to feel this way about this company that you do, about up uh what's your place called Peregrine.
Phillip:Dude, this can that even be said right now.
David:It can.
Phillip:And I'm about to touch in red written tones.
David:Yes.
Phillip:Okay.
David:This particular brew is called Autumn Delight. Oh, and it's from, I know it's probably hard to see it because of the way the light is hitting, but it's from Red Barn Roasters. Okay. And let me tell y'all, when I tried this the other night for the first time, it tasted the first taste that hit was it tasted sweet and it tasted like apples. And it is so smooth, it's so lovely. It's like at first, when I smelled it, I was like, oh, it's gonna be like pumpkin spice. It went a completely different way, and it's got apple and spice to it. Um, I know the description says, oh, the description says something weird that it has in it, that it has um uh a mix of graham cracker, French vanilla, cinnamon, and uh yeah, French vanilla and cinnamon in it. But this is just lovely, and I would highly, highly recommend this for anybody who's looking for a lovely fall cup. This is my side-by-side with pumpkin spice right now. This is so good. And then I've got another one that I bought in that I'll tell you about next week.
Jon:Okay, can't wait.
David:So that's what's in the cup now. Let's dig into what's before we do. Uh oh.
Ryan:Can I just tell you, whenever you use that uh the red barn, it always reminds me of this commercial of the red owl.
David:Ryan, may the lord may the lord watch over you and keep you safe from self-harm.
Ryan:Have you ever seen this commercial? If you have not, I highly recommend Googling it. The Rare House furniture.
David:He's not right, people. He's just not right. Oh man, let's get in, let's get into the word before Ryan gets us sent straight to hell for some foolish. I'm just I'm just kidding. All right, we want to kick off a little bit about uh starting with where we kind of have been the last couple of weeks and talking about uh this issue of pride. We've been in Proverbs chapter chapter 16, looking at verse 18. And if we pull up Proverbs 16 and 18, we see that it kind of paints a picture for us. It says, Pride goes before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall. We discussed the fact that that word haughty me has to do with it means arrogant, uh, it's puffed up. Uh, arrogant spirit goes before uh a fall. And so as we've been talking about this issue of pride, we started week one with this concept that uh there are two kinds of pride. There's a good kind of pride, and then there's a bad kind of pride. And we talked about some of the things that made pride good, talking about pride in your city, pride in uh good work or a well-done job, how there was to be pride in the community of believers. But then there's this other kind of pride that took us to a completely different place, and that's the kind of pride that takes us out of God and into self. I think we even went as far as um basically defining pride as you know exalting yourself and your own needs and wants and desires above God and above the Word. And so um, as you can tell, pride can be very dangerous, and as we've said, it can also be very subtle that it slips in, and you find, you know, you find that you're struggling to be taught by somebody, for example. And you know, you're just like, and then you gotta ask the question is there something wrong with our interaction, or is it the sense that I feel like you can't teach me? Because you can't teach me equates to some level of pride, versus there's a problem with our connection here that we need to fix because there's not malice behind whether or not I want to follow your lead. Philip, do you want to share that story that you were sharing with me about you know how you were working with your coworker and and you know you're trying to parse that out?
Phillip:Yeah, yeah. I'll try to keep it as generic as possible too.
David:Oh yeah, yeah, for sure.
Phillip:Avoid incriminating myself. Um, no, yeah, basically, I had I had to um oh gosh, I'm trying to think of how to even start this.
David:Long story short, I was working you're doing some work with someone else.
Phillip:Doing some work with someone else, and the work was designed for um me to take what the person had built and then uh be the person to train those things. Um and I've found that as time went on, I the the person I was working with kind of assumed a role that I didn't think was necessary, let's put it that way. Uh, a role of being a mentor, like I'm gonna teach you or help you train this well. And and the thing is, I've I've I've been training for a long, long time. I've I've trained in some professional way or another since about 2006. So I'm I'm not new to to training. And I struggled. Um I struggled with you know the the whole thing of um oh gosh, I'm not I'm not telling this story great at all. But I've struggled fine.
David:You're doing fine.
Phillip:Yeah, I just struggled with um the idea that there's somebody that doesn't know me enough to know what my experience level is, and I'm having to try to, you know, meet them where I I think they can understand, you know, what I'm about without coming across as arrogant or prideful about it or like I can't be taught um because you know, it came, you know, working with this person came with quite quite a bit of construct uh, I don't want to say constructive criticism, just just points of advice, points here, points there. And it's like, you know, uh some of it I just felt I felt I didn't need. And of course that created a conflict in me. And it was like, okay, am I just saying that because I'm in pride, or am I really not needing, you know, am I am I is this person kind of overstepping into a role that they don't belong in? You know, because they were not a boss to me, they were not a manager to me, they were not, they were just a co-worker that happened to be on the same project. And so um that, you know, I had to really kind of sort those things out, pray, you know, and I eventually did actually tell the person when uh at the end of it all, I told them, I said, I think you may have uh I think you may have mistaken uh what um I forgot how I put it. I think you may have misunderstood where I'm coming from. Um, I'm very confident with being able to train this material. You know, um I don't think we need to focus on on that, like you have to coach me into learning how to train it. Uh, I can do that. Um I've I've got that part squared away. Um, let's focus on making sure the content is the best it can be and that kind of thing. So um I'm trying to be as respectful as I can.
David:I don't want to come across like no no, because you you are I think you are, because basically the point is is that even in you you this is an everyday situation. Yeah, this isn't just some abstract, you know, oh gosh, is it in the Bible or not? You know, it's it's this situation happened, it's got me feeling some kind of way, right? Instead of just acting on it, the first thing I do is self-examine. Lord, where am I at in this? Right. See, you what I like about this is that Philip didn't take it to that person first, he took it to the Lord first to check himself, yeah. And that's one of the things that you know, a lot of times in a lot of situations, we miss that part first, we go off first, and then we go back and check. And then by that point, it's like you already went off. What you checking for?
Phillip:Yeah, yeah.
David:You went off now, deal with the outcome of that. So, but you didn't you didn't do that, and I like that you came away with it very confident in who you were, and you were able to have a conversation with someone else that says, Hey, let me let me make clear my approach and where I'm coming from, yeah, and that hopefully resolved the situation, and that's a great example of how we're supposed to resolve those types of situations that pop up in our lives and in the stuff that we're doing. However, if you take a look at and go with me to Matthew chapter 23, Jesus helps us in a way that we weren't expecting, I think. I think this this set of verses, we're gonna look all the way from chapter one, verse one through verse 12. Um, I think this is both funny and like Jesus giving you some of the most real advice he possibly could, and uh you take do with it as you want. Yeah, starting at verse one, it says, Then spake Jesus. I'm reading from the King James right now. You guys can read it from the translation of your choice. It says, Then spake Jesus to the multitude and to his disciples, saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. All therefore, whatsoever they bid you observe. That observe. Well, let me read that again. All therefore, whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do. But do not ye after their works, for they say and do not. You know, I just want to stop right there for a minute, Philip, and just tackle that part.
Phillip:Shoot, yeah. Um, this is interesting, man, because uh I did a little homework on that thing about sitting in Moses' seat, and that was basically how they would conduct their their synagogue services at the time. They had a little bench uh inside the synagogue, and it was called Moses' seat. And that was where the person who was going to do the reading of the scripture, that's where they would sit to either you know read or or explain something from the Torah, that type of thing. And it was called Moses' seat because it was considered a seat of authority. And I find that fascinating because it's like he was saying, hey, look, these guys sit in Moses' seat. In other words, they're in positions of authority, uh, religiously speaking or spiritually speaking. He said, but make sure not to do after what they do, do what they say, but not after what you see them do, because they're not doing the things that they're telling you. And uh I love that. It's like they have a position of authority, but they're not they're not able to even speak from it uh correctly because they're not living what they're teaching. And I thought that was a great way to start. And I can imagine if you think about there were plenty of Pharisees and scribes that were physically present when Jesus was saying these things. They were right there, you know. And so it's like they were like, I'm sure, you know, the the the discomfort started settling into the atmosphere, you know. Like, you know how it is when somebody's getting uh confronted about something, or there's there's something like an elephant in the room that's being addressed. People talking, yeah, it starts getting really sketchy and really dicey, and it's like, uh oh, oh gosh, you know, here Jesus, oh man, no, no, you know, that kind of thing. But he from that point, Jesus went on in and he he unleashed on these guys. And the thing that I love about it, David, it's like we have several scriptures that say plain as day that Jesus did no sin. He'd committed zero sin. And in first Peter it says, neither was any guile found in his mouth, meaning there was no deception and no falsehood behind anything he said. So when you read the rest of Matthew 23, it is a rebuke of the Pharisees that was a thousand percent accurate. There was nothing there that was too much of an exaggeration or a little too harsh or anything like that. It was a thousand percent on point for who these guys were, and so um I think if if we read it in that kind of a line of thinking, man, it's it's like wow, Jesus was calling them out and and reading their mail.
David:So um anyway, Jesus pulled absolutely zero punches, yeah. Yeah, and but you know the good thing about that though is the people around Jesus knew where they stood with him. Yeah, and that's that's a wonderful thing. If we pick up at verse four, um so he just said, um do not after their works, for they do what they say, but not what they what they don't follow their works, for they say and do not. Verse four for they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be born and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Phillip:Oh boy.
David:So, you know, the picture that's being painted here, you know, back then a heavy burden could have been any kind of carrying of uh, you know, a lot of people look at burdens and it's like stacks and upon stacks of different kinds of hay and wheat and uh different things like that. A burden could have been anything that they were carrying on their backs to move from point A to point B. And here we have them binding these heavy burdens on, and not only are they heavy burdens, but they're grievous, they're difficult to be borne. Wow, and they're saying that the Pharisees and Sadducees would put these things on men's shoulders. In other words, not that they would physically put them on there, but they would cause men to have to carry these burdens, but they themselves would not move them with one of their fingers. So, in other words, you carry and bear the load and be filled and be warmed, you know, that kind of approach to it. What do you have to say, Phil?
Phillip:Yeah, that that um that's if you look think about it this way, too. That's kind of the burden of the law that they were putting on people as well. Like they were, you know, piling rule upon rule upon rule onto these people to the point where you feel like you're drowning in rule keeping, you know, and it's funny because it's I think it has that spiritual element to it's as well. It's like they're they're piling on statute after law after regulation after thing to remember after okay, when you before you eat, you got to wash your hands and wash the pot this way and do this, that, and the other. And it turned into this whole, I mean, I'm talking like uh uh what like a kaleidoscope of requirements that you've got to remember. And after a while, I mean, everybody has their limit, dude. You know, it's it's gonna be to a point where you simply you you step back and go, I can't do all this, you know? And even though they would pile those types of things on people, they wouldn't even so much as like lift one of their fingers, if you want to say it that way, like to help them. In other words, uh no guidance, no compassion, no anything like that.
David:They wouldn't even wash the dishes, they were talking about being so you know, religiously pure and ready to go.
Phillip:There you go. Absolutely, yeah.
David:You know, it's it's also interesting, Philip. You know, the devil plays the same way nowadays, and you know, uh and the the the religious spirit, oh boy, uh, that he he plays with and plays over people's lives. We talked about it a couple of weeks ago, the concept of you know, I've got to get myself right before I come to church, you know, as if you could get yourself right, but then it's burden after burden, it's well, I'm doing this, and you know, I'm also doing that, and you can just see that you know the enemy has just said, see, you can't go to church because of that, see, because of this, and then you got this going on, and you're drinking, and you're doing this, and the church is for the perfect, not the place where you're made perfect, see, but it's for the perfect. Oh boy, that couldn't be any further from the truth, and there's that Pharisee spirit right there laying grievous burdens on people's shoulders that are that are all that are almost too difficult to bear.
Phillip:Yeah, yeah, and it's so interesting too because as Jesus goes on, you'll see these guys aren't even keeping this stuff themselves. They're really not. They they know how to play the role, they know how to present themselves that way, but deep down their hearts are full of corruption, love of money, evil, lust, all those things are dwelling in these guys' hearts. They know how to present a good front, but it's the they're they're like you said, they're full of dead men's bones. I know we're gonna get to it, but that's pretty much you know let's read it, let's read it now.
David:But all verse five, but all their works, talking about the Pharisees, um, but all of their works they do for to be seen of men. Oh boy, they make broad their phylacteries. We'll talk about what that means in just a minute, and enlarge the borders of their garments, and love the uppermost rooms at feast and the chief seats of the in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplace, and to be called of men rabbi rabbi. Ooh. I'll stop right there, Philip. Take them.
Phillip:Oh gosh, man. This one here, oh it really gets it gets your goat, man. And I I know David, you could you and I both. We've been in these kinds of atmospheres. Um if you've ever been to a minister's conference, uh of any kind, especially in like the word of faith circles and things like that.
David:Uh sometimes also in some churches known as a preacher's pissing contest.
Phillip:It's I I'll just I'll share an example. I'll share an example. There was a guy I knew who was an usher at the church we used to go to, and he worked this minister's conference where he was the responsible for seating people on the front front rows section. So this lady comes in and she's you know apostle so-and-so, whatever, and she's trying to go down front and she thinks she is supposed to have a seat in the front. He's like, uh, well, no, ma'am, these seats are reserved for such and so. And I mean, they even had signs on the seats to show who the seats were reserved for. But she was like, uh, well, you don't, you must not know who I am, you know. And then she's like, I'm apostle so-and-so. And he's like, Well, ma'am, I'm I appreciate all that, but I I can't sit you here. I've got people that are gonna sit in these chairs. And she said, That's the problem with people like you, you don't recognize the anointing. And then she got all mad and stormed off. And things like that. They get my they they hit me deep, dude. Because if it's one thing I can't stand, and anybody that knows me, I can't stand people who think they're better than other people. Like the pompousness of it all, yes, the the the arrogance, the condescending attitude, uh, the the high-minded, the looking down your nose. I hate stuff like that. I hate stuff like that. And I feel like when when Jesus said this stuff in Matthew 23, he was like, they love the greetings in the marketplaces, they love to be seen and heard and uh to have status and to be considered important and all this stuff like that. They love validation from the outside. Yeah, you know, and that type of stuff, man, it shows that you don't have the the internal um character, if you want to put it that way. You don't you don't have the internal validation that you should know between you and God alone that I am I'm important because God made me and created me, not because people not because I can present myself to look important to people, you know. Um, I don't know, man. I that stuff just gets to me, dude. I I can go on a rant about that, but I won't.
David:Ryan, I I was waiting for Ryan to jump in because I know Ryan has stories of the pump of the pump piety, the pump piety, the pomposity. Yes.
Phillip:Oh my god.
Ryan:All I was gonna say was um I've watched you know several men that I respected that I don't think they started off with the papiety or you know, wanting to be called, you know, when he says, and to be called of men rabbi, rabbi rabbi, rabbi, come on, man. And you know, they weren't worried about the title or and they didn't start off worrying about um validation of men, but when man, there's nothing wrong with you complimenting somebody or receiving a compliment, right? But it's when the compliment becomes your idol, yeah. And I've watched some really godly men that I really respected and adored and you know wanted to follow like what Paul said, follow me as I wanted to follow Christ. Like I I wanted to follow them, but over the course of 24, you know, 24 months, I watched them several people in different scenarios. It wasn't even like the same, you know, season of life, but watched the this validation of men go to their heads when you know, all and then all of a sudden it's um, you know, you're calling them by their first name, but then that's no longer allowed because that makes them a commoner. Now you have to call them pastor so-and-so. You have to use their title, and if you don't, then it's disrespectful, and you know, you're not right, you know, reckon, you know, touch not the you know, the Lord's anointed and so on, you know. Um, you're not even allowed to question them anymore, you're not allowed to have any sort of dialogue or um debate with them anymore about anything, right? And so um I'll just say um the compliment, you know, when you be when you are living a godly life and then people start to recognize that people are gonna compliment you, and there's nothing wrong with saying thank you and pocketing that, but when you allow it to like you know what Phil was saying, you know, that that young lady that was trying to get to the head of the church, you know, to sit on a front row, she didn't start there, you know what I mean? But that over time, and so I would just say don't allow it to overtime make you feel like you're better than anybody else. Um you're coming around with that's antithetical to the got to the whole gospel. Yeah, you know, we've said it over and over again, we've referenced that, and maybe it's worth diving into next week, but you know, Romans chapter um, I think 11, don't consider yourself more highly than you ought to. Oh, yeah, you know, and um, you know, the only thing that you should be indebted to is uh is love to your brotherly love, right? And so um while the compliments of men are very um intoxicating and also they are encouraging, don't allow it to become an idol in your life where it blinds you um and causes you to fall into destruction because ultimately I would say for those men that I was following, like I a lot of people are like, I just can't do that no more, you know. Yeah, so I don't know if it's led to their destruction um in the sense that you might think, but it's caused them to lose a lot of meaningful relationships. And then I know that uh you know I've heard through the grapevine that they're left standing, like, oh well, where where are all the people you know that I used to do life with? Well, they had to leave because you're not the same man anymore.
David:Right now, it's it's interesting. This, you know, this verse even takes us to to the you know places they want the upper rooms at feast, you know, that's the same thing as having the the best table at a restaurant, yeah. You know, and look, it and fills out the chief seats in the synagogue. So even in the church, and you know, there's I'm thinking of two places right now. You know, James warns us not to even in the church to not think more highly of ourselves than we ought to, and talking about the whole concept of you know the rich versus the poor in the church in James and how one shouldn't be treated better than the other, yeah, you know, yeah, but even even Jesus said, you know, it's better, and I don't remember exactly where it is, it's better for you to go and sit at the worst table in the place, yeah, yeah, and be invited to move up, yes, rather than to put yourself at the best table and be invited to move down.
Phillip:Yes, come on, man.
David:And uh, I just you know, we've gotta we we've gotta sober up. There have been times Phillips preached, Ryan's preached, I've preached, you know, I think John's done some preaching too. And people will come up to you and say, Oh, you know, hey Pastor, no, just David.
Phillip:Right, please, yes.
David:I don't I don't need an extra title or anything like that to do the will of God.
Phillip:There you go, brother.
David:Do what I'm called to do, and at the end at the end of it all, I'm still your brother, I'm still your brother in Christ. There's you know, and if the Lord gives a title and moves on, you know, I Brian, oddly enough, the pastor at that church that we were at once um once scolded me for not using pastor, yeah, in front of his name.
Ryan:And in fact, you feel odd now just saying his name. Well, I did.
David:It's I don't it probably took me about a year to start, but all that and we're not talking about people, we're not talking about dishonor, it's it's it's respectful to use pastor so-and-so or whatever, God's called them into that position. But when it's turned around on you, where the only way you can communicate is if you call me by my title, yeah, that's a whole nother ball game.
Ryan:Yeah, but but to your point, David, like to just encourage those that are watching, on the other side is you know, if you're like wondering if you can do preach or lead someone to the gospel truth or um whatever, you don't need a title either. That's right. We're all it we all have the same Holy Spirit, right? That's right, no matter where you're at. Um, and so you don't have to wait for someone to bestow a title and um and a paycheck on you to do what you feel called to do. You can start today. That's good.
David:Ryan, just to validate that, uh Ephesians 4 it tells us that there's this division that's well, not a division, but this thing that's gonna happen where God's given unto us prophets and prophets, prophets and prophets, prophets and teachers and evangelists and uh shepherds and all of that. Those are gifts for the entire body of Christ.
Ryan:Yeah, it says for all before it lists that list that you're talking about, it says for all. Yeah, not for not you know, not for the best, you know, not for a select few, not for a minority, not for the inner circle, not from those that are drawing a paycheck from the church, not from those that got a master's degree from the divinity school, for all. Come on, bro.
David:And and then if you look at Romans and uh you look at first Corinthians, I think it's 12, Romans 6, so I could be wrong, uh, six or eight. But in both cases, Paul goes through a series of identifying that there are gifts that are given, and everybody has been given some kind of gift, and uh, the reason why I say that say that about what Ephesians says, say that about what Romans says, say that what about what Corinthians says, is you've already been given something, yeah. In a sense, you're authorized to walk and function within the gift that God has given you. You don't have to wait to be called a pastor, wait for somebody to say rabbi, rabbi in the streets. You don't have to do any of that stuff to do the most important thing, and that is to help to save men's souls.
Phillip:Yeah, yeah.
David:Any one of us could do that when I spent time working with Philip. Um, I didn't say, No, no, no, no. You call me Brother David right now. And I want you to feel that deep within the well of your spirit. See my authority. We were just two dudes hanging out. Sometimes I knew some more stuff than he did, he knew more stuff than I did. We remember, I was thinking about it today, Philip, when we would sit outside on the porch and stay out downtown, yes, to get a breath of fresh air, and women would walk by scantily dressed, and how we would bounce our eyes because that was our practice. We practiced that together. We bounced our eyes, we didn't stay staring at these women in a way that was inappropriate. We walked through this life together and grew in Christ, and we did that with Chuck, you know, and and there were other people that came along, and over time, see, nobody needed a title for any of those things to be done. And Jesus is saying, these people are full of themselves. What are they full with? Amongst other things, pride, yes, they are just full of themselves, self-exalted, and they are in in one sense, I think he implies that they're out of control to some degree, yeah. You know, to the point to the point where you can't even follow them, yeah. And what they're what they're doing, only obey what they tell you to observe out of respect for the authority of Moses' seat.
Ryan:Come on. So when you you know, to me, when you sit on Moses's seat and that's all you're worried about, is you will miss out on an opportunity from being sharpened, you know. It says in Proverbs as iron sharpens iron, so man one man sharpens another. So, but if you're so involved in your title and your position, you can be being you can lose out on being sharpened, and then over time, as a leader, as a as a man or woman of God, you become dull because people will be too afraid to come sharpen you because they're too afraid to touch your title because you're gonna get angry or upset or push away or whatever, because what will happen is if you become so full of yourself, you won't be able to hear or listen or take anything from anybody else to show your blind spots. So, what David's saying, you know, what David and Phil were doing is as one man sharpens another, uh, or so the iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another, they were sharpening each other because they weren't too worried about be you know looking one way or another, you know. Um, so just be mindful that if that happens, you have the you run the risk of becoming dull.
David:Right. And and you know what you just said, Ryan. You know, what I also it's got me thinking is that you neglect, you miss out on genuine fellowship.
Ryan:Yeah, exactly.
David:Yeah, because genuine fellowship allows you to be corrected, genuine fellowship allows you to be loved when you feel unloved, it allows you to be a truth teller, it allows you to hear truth, it allows you, as he said, it allows you to be sharpened and for you to sharpen other people as well. So you've gotta we've gotta we've gotta do better in this area because once you get into pride and the fall comes, destruction comes, you know, before you go there, God is gracious to give us opportunities to to get off that track. Yeah, but if we don't have anybody to help us, and we don't have we don't do good self-examination and we miss it, man, that fall is not any place you want to be.
Phillip:No son.
David:I think if you'd look back and if you were to ask Nebuchadnezzar or the prodigal son if they wanted to be in either of the places that they ended up, they'd tell you, heck no, they didn't want to be there. But by that point, they were so far gone into their pride that there was nothing left for them but the bottom of that list. Let me let me keep reading here real quick. Um, verse 7, the greetings in Mark, verse 8. But be not ye called rabbi, for one is your master, even Christ, and all you are brothers, see, and call and call no man your father upon the earth, for one is your father which is in heaven.
Ryan:Excuse me. All right, there you need a lozenge.
David:I'm sorry, uh, but he that is greatest among you, verse 11. Let he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. We're getting into the keys again, verse 12. And whoever shall exalt himself shall be abased, and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. So we see it really quickly. The greatest among you, and we we we we see biblically, we see this argument amongst the disciples, who's the greatest of us, you know, and it's like Jesus, is it I? No, is it I Jesus? And they have this big this this this big argument about it, and it comes down to the same thing let the greatest among you be a servant of all, but he that is greatest among you shall be your servant, and that's a place that most people you guys know why that's a problem for people. It's because they think of being someone's servant as being low, and this society that we live in has made that so that the people who are the servants are the low end of the totem pole, they're the low end of the social of the social and financial spectrum, and then therefore they're looked down upon. Jesus is like, Well, I mean, just think about it the greatest of us all, of all of us ever, was Jesus. Yeah, and he took it upon himself to get a basin, some towels, and start washing feet as a servant. He set the tone for us for how to go there and get in that place. And you know what? When you're on your knees like that serving other people, it's hard to grow pride.
Phillip:Yeah, that's right, that's right. Absolutely.
David:What are you thinking, Philip?
Phillip:Um, I wanted to actually go to the uh the next verse in that Matthew 23.
David:Um verse 13.
Phillip:Yeah, yeah, there it is. And uh he said, Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, for you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men, for you neither go in yourselves, neither suffer you them that are entering to go in.
David:My God.
Phillip:He's like, not only do you make it hard for anybody else to not only do you do you present basically an unattainable level of spirituality, but even when somebody's trying their hardest to get there, you shut it up, you just you slam the door in their face. You know, it's it's really again this idea of this self-exaltation, this idea that um I can be the most holy, most pious of anyone, and you you're conveying that to other people. Um and and meanwhile, you're not doing a thing to really help them progress in their understanding of who God is or their relationship with God. Uh, it's more about you than it is about God at the end of the day. Um, but that next verse, I wanted to get to that too, uh, John, if you don't mind. Um woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, verse 14. Hypocrites. This is a big one, y'all. For you devour widows' houses and for a pretense make long prayer. Therefore you shall receive the greater damnation. Now, what this is referring to, and and I haven't done like extensive study, but the little things I've been able to find here or there, uh, when it talks about devouring widows' houses, it's something they would do where, like, if if a woman's husband passed, um, and let's say that there was, you know, the husband left uh a substantial amount of wealth. Well, the Pharisees would basically, in so many words, they would guilt these widows into giving it all to the temple, which basically means it'll end up in their hands.
David:Right.
Phillip:You know, and and say that, you know, you do you're gonna honor God by doing this. Um, not too much different than what you hear with the the current day prosperity preachers that are out there who say if you give me $10,000, God's gonna give you a word, uh, and and things like that.
David:Come on there in a minute.
Phillip:Yeah. And but notice what he said. He said, you know, you devour widows' houses, meaning you you consume everything that they have, and then for a pretense, make long prayer. He's like, you know, you think you're making up for your theft, basically, you're making up for your greed and corruption by sounding very spiritual in a nice long prayer. And you send this widow off empty-handed, but with a decent sounding prayer that maybe she'll think of later. Meanwhile, she'll be struggling financially for the rest of her life.
David:And so all for the sake of an appearance.
Phillip:Yes, yes, and we see that happening now. I mean, with with many of these preachers that claim to, you know, if you sow money into our ministry, God's going to give you a thousand times back. And you've got people out there who are living on fixed income, old ladies who can barely afford groceries giving their last dime to these people in hopes that God will bless them. And it's so sad because most of most of what's happening is just uh it's a con. It's a con, dude. It's just designed to get money from people so they can continue buying whatever luxury cars and clothes they want to get, and right has nothing to do with God.
David:And and you know what, you guys, it's not don't don't miss, don't hear us wrong. God blesses, God takes care of his people. It says, I've never seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed beg for bread. God is good, and God provides for his people, and not only does he provide for his people, but he blesses his people, he loves his kids, he loves his children, and he desires to take care of those that are his. But I'm just I'm just telling you guys, and and it's how you you just wake up, wake up, wake up. This is this is the wickedness of this world. This is pride at work, amongst other things, pride, hypocrisy. Um, the this is the anti-fruit of the spirit. It's the opposite of everything that we've been talking about literally for months and behavior that would suck a widow dry in order for you to have, but for her to have nothing, and then you don't even look back on her with pity or sorrow for the position that you've left her in. And it's not just her, but it's when you look at even the church today, the positions that they have left people in. You know, I I have I used to have an old wallet, and uh a pal preacher used to say, you know, remember this was the fourth of July giving. I want you to write fourth of July on a scrap of paper and put it in your wallet, and you give everything. And and at that time I was young and I was like, I believe this. Okay, 4th of July. And you know, I still don't know if the 4th of July giving ever came back around. If it did, it never had a name, and I I would have never known. Um, but what I saw was a lot of God's goodness in my life and throughout my life. I've been highly favored by God, and I still am. But that's the work of the Lord, that's not the work of chicanery in the church, and you've got to be so careful of it. And the other thing is just look at this. We're talking about this stuff happening back when the church was forming and developing. Nobody should be surprised to see it still happening.
Phillip:Yeah.
David:So because I want people to stop what the church hurt, you know, because so much of the things that we get hurt by by the church were present in the Bible. We just weren't looking at it the way that we ought to. We got caught up emotionally in it, and we let our emotions lead the way instead of looking at the scriptures soberly, watching what was happening soberly, and then positioning our family in the right places so that we could prosper successfully and not go through all this chicanery. So if we would just look at the word, it would help us to avoid these mistakes. Brian, what were you about to say?
Ryan:Uh I was just gonna say that um I can't don't know how you could read Matthew 23 without thinking about Philippians chapter two. And, you know, to your point, you know, at the end, David, when Jesus says, you know, ye that shall be humbled shall be exalted. And we see that promise again in Philippians chapter two. You know, when Paul says, and your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Jesus Christ, who, being in the very nature of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used to his own advantage. Rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness, and being found in the appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross. So Jesus was equal with God, but he didn't consider that. So he became a human, but not just a human, a human servant, but not just a human servant. He became, he submitted himself to death, even though we know the results of the what causes death is sin, and he had no sin, but he submitted himself to that. But not just any death, not just dying of old age or of sickness, but death on a cross, which at that time we we see that as a celebration as Western Christian Christians today. But death on a cross, then that was the lowest form of punishment. That was it was humiliating. And so because he Jesus submitted himself to that and humbled himself, says the promises in verse 9, therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name above every name that uh that at that name of Jesus, every knee should bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue should uh acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. So we can see that in that's a promise to believers as well, that when you humble yourself, God is going to exalt you. Not not your works, not your knowledge, not your titles. Your title is not going to exalt you, God is gonna exalt you. And so um let that just be a promise to you. That's good, Roger.
David:Well, and that's a great way to put a bow in it for this week. Yes, sir. Yep, that's good. Um, we just man, we pray for you guys. We we pray, but here are our hearts in this. Um God wants us to live deception free in the church. Yeah, He wants us to live pride free, He wants us to live soberly and to go about and do good and to lead people to Christ and to help disciple people and bring them along and make his family grow. You know, we're looking at so many things going on in our world today. Jesus wasn't afraid for there to be people of different religions in and around where his churches were. And the reason why I believe that that's so is because he believed, well, not he believed, he knew that the word of God in the mouths of those who believed him was greater than any lie they could possibly believe that would tell them how to live. And we can live in this world and we can win, we can bring people to Jesus, we can live successfully, we can live quiet and peaceable lives, like the word says, and we can go on, and when it's our time, go on to glory, knowing that we're going to hear, well done, my good and faithful servant. So we just pray God's best for you. We pray for your sobriety again, and we pray that you'll use this word to discern between good and evil, right and wrong, and follow what Jesus instructs so that you'll live your best life. Until next time, uh don't forget you can connect with us on social media. Uh, we'd love to hear from you. Tell us how this episode is impacting you. Tell us what you're getting out of it. We'd love to hear from you on that. You can reach us by email at got brew at biblebros.net. That's got brew at biblebros.net. Until next time, I'm a Phil. I'm I'm not Phillip. I'm David. He's Phillip. That's Ryan. John's in the back, and we're out of here. Peace.
