Bible, Bros & Brew
Bible, Bros, & Brew is all about helping you navigate your relationship with God in practical, real-life ways. Hosts David and Phil dig into scripture—'chopping up the word'—and bring it to life with insights you can actually use every day. And while they’re at it, they share their favorite 'brews'—don’t worry, it’s not booze! Just a solid lineup of classic coffees and teas to keep the conversations flowing.
Bible, Bros & Brew
The Dangers of Factions & Cliques in the Church | Walking in the Spirit | Bible, Bros & Brew
From church politics and cliques to full-blown factions, most of us are aware of the dangerous nature of division within the body of Christ. As we continue our series on the theme of "Walking in the Spirit", David & Phil tackle the spiritually destructive phenomena of factions and cliques in the church, with an emphasis on using the scriptures to address these unhealthy practices.
gotbrew@biblebros.net
tonight.
Speaker 1:And so, in order to do so, paul takes an interesting turn and he actually identifies what the works of the flesh are.
Speaker 1:And so we've been going through tearing down what these works of the flesh actually mean and how they're so much deeper than we ever thought they were and how there's so much more going on when you start digging into the Greek and better understanding what each of these words means, and we find out there's factions that are going on, there's selfish ambition involved, there's fits of rage and there's this kind of party spirit where this group is against that group and this church is against that church and all of that kind of stuff that's going on.
Speaker 1:And then, of course, there's the sexual sin, sexual immorality that's going on. There's witchcraft and idolatry going on, and all of this stuff, as we've dug in we find out, is actually pretty wild. But tonight we're going to track through, I think, two of the wildest ones of them all that are connected with the others. Never forget that these sins have a way of compounding upon one another, meaning one kind of connects to the other, leads to the other. Usually, with this one you've got these other two that are involved, and it's just this hodgepodge of absolute nastiness and filth that God is asking us to stay away from.
Speaker 2:Oh God.
Speaker 1:It is, it is. I need to quote you on that, gosh. It is, it is.
Speaker 2:I need to quote you on that man An hodgepodge of nastiness and filth and filth. Don't forget the filth, oh gosh.
Speaker 1:So we're going to dig into the last of these tonight before we start talking about the fruit of the spirit. But before we do, let's find out what's in everybody's cup tonight, because, as you know, a good hot coffee beverage has a way of steaming the conversation so that it will be fruitful for all who hear it. All right, phil, what are you drinking? We're going to finish talking about the sins of animosity and we're going to finish off this section of Galatians, chapter 5 and the works of the flesh, and talk about the sins of intemperance. The sins of intemperance. We're still talking about walking in the spirit. Consider this a list of what not to do. Next, on Bible Bros and Brew. I'm David, he's Ryan, the guy in the middle is Phil and all of us are certifiably certifiable.
Speaker 3:There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 1:No question about it at all. We're so glad that you have joined us for this episode of Bible Bros and Brew. You know we're going to talk tonight about we're going to continue talking about Galatians, chapter 5. We're in verse 20, and we've been looking at the sins, or the works of the flesh. Remember, this verse starts off by telling us to walk in the Spirit and we would not fulfill the works of the flesh, or we would not fulfill the sins of the flesh the David McIntyre translation. But it says the Lust of the Flesh actually. But they're all in the same category of things.
Speaker 2:Thank goodness, man, You're cracking me up dude. Okay, guys.
Speaker 1:You've got the new bag.
Speaker 2:New bag. Herod Grin has a new bag. I got the James Brown song in my hip, probably got a brand new bag. Yes, dude, this is a new coffee and I better not get it too close to the camera. I'll lose my focus for the whole episode, but this is called. Ethiopia, guji Gigesa, if I made it up again. So Ethiopia, guji Gigesa.
Speaker 1:If I.
Speaker 2:So it's dope man. It's got notes of cherry, limeade, citra I guess that's plural for citrus Citra hops, and then red wine, they say. But this is a very bright coffee, it's a light roast, it's kind of an awesome breakfast coffee kind of thing. Going on, man. I tried it for the first time this morning and it was thebombcom, and now I've got another cup of it for this episode. Yes, peregrine, once again shout out to the guys in Colorado, come on Jerry Lyon. Yes, how about that man? So, ryan, what about you, sir?
Speaker 3:Well, I am rocking and rolling with the Trader Joe's French Roast again. Yes steaming a mic up and I got the classic Traveler mug again.
Speaker 1:What you got is the classic pinky out.
Speaker 3:That's what that was.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love it, man. I think of a parking lot full of Teslas when I think about Trader Joe's.
Speaker 3:And then, well, we won't go there, David you.
Speaker 2:Maybe not now, but about a year ago, and then, well, we won't go there.
Speaker 3:uh, david, you know how that is so yeah uh, I guess david got offended by that. Sorry, I just I didn't know. Sorry, man. Oh there he is. Hey, david. Hey, you told david, you told us you were going to be adventurous this week.
Speaker 1:Yes, no pun intended, I did not lie. This week I brought in actually an old friend. I haven't really had this coffee since our days back together, the three of us.
Speaker 2:No way.
Speaker 1:In Portsmouth, New Hampshire.
Speaker 2:Oh snap.
Speaker 1:Where they would brew New England coffee, oh nice.
Speaker 3:Let's see if I can get that. There you go.
Speaker 1:So tonight I am drinking Butter Pecan from New England Coffee.
Speaker 2:I remember those guys man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all the coffee stations that hold all their. I would drink my hazelnut daily, yes, and I would spike it with a little something else that was like a Colombian or something like that. Mm-hmm, a little something else that was like a Colombian or something like that. So, yep, an ode back to our old days. But, yeah, butter pecan, it's really nice, it's smooth and it actually doesn't need a lot of help, you just let it cook.
Speaker 2:Yes, let it cook.
Speaker 1:Let it cook.
Speaker 2:Or let it brew, as we might say.
Speaker 1:Indeed, indeed, we would. So that's what's in the cup, everybody, you can go out and find these coffees all over the place. You can go to Peregrinecom, of course. You can go to Trader Joe's, and for mine you can find these at. You can probably find mine locally at a Walmart or Publix in their coffee section. So we'd love to also hear from you what are you drinking tonight? That's helping you with your study and dig in time with us. Drop us a comment down below and let us know what you're drinking, or even if it's not tonight, anytime, we'd love to see what you're drinking because that might inspire our next coffee by. So there we go.
Speaker 1:Alright, now let's dig into this word a little bit, because we've got a little ground that we want to cover as it relates to these last couple of sins, or these works of the flesh, same thing. So when we last were together, we went through variance, emulations, wrath and strife, and we realized quite a bit about these. We realized that wrath wasn't just getting angry, but it's really talking about fits of rage, and it talks about it's not just being angry. That's not sufficient to cover what wrath means in this situation. You, of course, can think back to the scripture that says be angry. It's actually in Ephesians be angry, but sin not. And so we see, god doesn't have a problem with you being angry about a thing, but when it turns into fits of rage, you've moved into sin a whole nother ballgame. So tonight we're going to start with seditions and, just as a reminder, the next three that we cover are still under the category that we call the sins of animosity. Remember, there are four categories of sins that are identified here. The first two, or the first three that we cover here, are adultery, fornication, uncleanness and lasciviousness. Actually, that's four, and those are considered the sins of immorality. Then you can pull that back up, ryan. And then when you look at the next two, which is idolatry and witchcraft, we get into the sins of idolatry. And then everything else that we've been covering, from adultery down to and it'll go all the way through murders, is part of the sins of animosity.
Speaker 1:And remember, animosity is a strong feeling of dislike or hatred, often accompanied by ill will or resentment, that can lead to active hostility. Wow, it exists between individuals, between groups of people, even between countries, and we even see that happening in our real world. You know that. There's just, you know, animosity everywhere. Animosity everywhere. The Ukrainians hate the Russians, europe hates Russia, russia hates Europe.
Speaker 1:All of this craziness that's going on, all this animosity that, if it's not put in check, will lead to war. The same is true in your spiritual life, that if these things aren't put is true in your spiritual life, that if these things aren't put in check in your spiritual life, they're going to lead to destruction and war in your own life. So you want to avoid those. So Philip is it's another word or a form of divisions it has to do a little bit with separation, and it has to do.
Speaker 1:I'm going to read from the commentary that I've been sharing with you guys, the New American Commentary. From the commentary that I've been sharing with you guys, the New American Commentary First of all, it talks about how Paul only used this word dissensions in one other place, and that is in Romans 16, 17, where it says I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. It goes on to say, like the preceding word, dissensions carries political overtones, suggesting the cultivation of a party spirit or an elusive elite within the church party spirit or an elusive elite within the church.
Speaker 1:Wow, when that happens, the unity and fellowship of the body of Christ is fractured. Soon the backbiting, bad-mouthing and mutual destruction that Paul warned the Galatians of earlier in verse 15, right here in 5, where he warns them. In 5.15, he says to them but if you bite and devour one another, take heed that you be not consumed one of another. And he was talking about the spirit of division and dissension that would ultimately have people backbiting and using their mouths to be destructive and actually taking action on that destruction. It says soon the backbiting and badmouthing and mutual destruction Paul warned the Galatians of earlier manifest themselves to the detriment of the life and witness of God's people. And you know what, phil? That's the first time I've really seen that here. As we've looked at it, it's not just your life and the life of God's people that's impacted by it, but notice, it says the witness of God's people is impacted. While I pull up the other piece on this, what are you thinking on instantly?
Speaker 2:With sedition in particular. Man, when you were talking about that, I started looking up the definition too, and one of them was disunity, meaning some level of breaking away from that core of unity that we're all supposed to be operating in. I think Paul said in Ephesians maybe four, he said we should endeavor to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace. That's, that's a big thing. And then I thought about this, you know, because when it talks about this party, spirit is it's talking about factions of some degree, and the word came to my mind cliques.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's good Phil.
Speaker 2:It isn't always something very official, if you want to put it that way, but sometimes you'll have in churches or not just in churches, but in practically any type of organization or body of people you'll have cliques that develop where certain people are kind of on the inside or in the know versus the people that are on the outside, even though they're all part of the ostensibly part of the same organization or whatever. And I wanted to read something from a commentary that I've got called the Albert Barnes commentary. I really liked this guy. I found it through eSword.
Speaker 2:He said here the very attempt to form such parties was evil, no matter what the pretense. He said. They who attempt to form parties in the churches are commonly actuated by some evil or ambitious design, and so a lot of times when these types of cliques form, they're hardly ever for a good end. It typically turns out to be a self-serving end. To some degree it could be to get in good with the leadership and gain favor that maybe others won't have, or gain opportunities others won't have, or things like that. But there's hardly ever a good uh, motive or intention behind breaking off into little factions and little cliques here and there. And then, um, all of a sudden you see other people as on the outside, while you're here on the inside.
Speaker 1:So yeah, you know what that makes me think about, philip, and I hate to be so. I've been, I've been thinking about the, the sense that it talks about how it's political, and so, and we've all, we all have heard and seen church politics before- yeah.
Speaker 1:But you even just look at it and I just look at our normal political scope that we're dealing with Now. You got the Freedom Caucus, you got the Black Caucus, you got the this caucus, you got the financially inept caucus, you know you. You got the squad. You know also the financially inept squad. I'll leave that alone. But you have all of this fracturing all of this fracturing for a group of people that are supposed to be in the same body together?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And it's just, I just like that, you, I like that use of the word clicks, because what did we do? Just even think about the path that we get on from a very early age. By the time we get into junior high and high school, we start forming the clicks and you start having to find what click you belong in if you're kind of going to survive, whether it's the band click the cheerleader, click the sports team the nerds right all of that.
Speaker 1:And then what do you do? Then you go to college and you have to start over and you find your clique, which is usually a fraternity or a sorority, and so you make your way to that clique, and what I always find interesting is then that clique becomes your identity.
Speaker 2:Goodness, gracious man, Talk about that dude.
Speaker 1:All of a sudden, now you're an alpha capital. You're dealt. You're a Zaydo, who am I? And you're doing all of that stuff, but then you'll forget your identity in Christ altogether, wow, and you'll lay aside your identity in Christ for this identity. For all of that, for all of this, hand signs and jigs.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:It's wild. And then what do we do? We get into the workforce and we do the same thing. We find our office clique that we identify with and hope that we can identify with them through whatever thing we identified with in college and maybe in high school that carries some weight, to make us feel like we're something. Yeah, that carries some weight to make us feel like we're something. Yeah, I just tell you I think I told you before Philip about the pastor who's been pastoring for umpteen years and he decided to join a fraternity.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, I heard about that.
Speaker 1:Goodness man, just think about that. A pastor joins a fraternity, as if Christ isn't sufficient.
Speaker 3:Ryan, drop it on us. Ryan, well, I think like well, when I was a youth pastor, I probably wasn't very popular amongst some parents because they used to get on to me and they would be like all these cliques are forming and I would never. I stopped fighting it because I wrestled with it for a long time, because you know, like you're saying, david, in middle school and high school it's a normal thing. And I stopped fighting it because you know, if you even look at the 12 disciples, you can actually see some cl clicks happening among the 12. So I landed on. It's kind of a normal human thing to do and I landed on that. God's okay with it. But I think you nailed it on the head, david. When that becomes more of your identity than Christ, then that's the problem. When, like you know, when we become more Republican or Democrat more so than.
Speaker 3:Christ, then that's the problem when it, when it, you know, um, so there's no problem to be a part of, to have your group of friends, yeah.
Speaker 1:Or be a part of a group per se.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Although I think fraternities and sororities are the devil. But that's just me, right, that's another conversation.
Speaker 2:It's a whole other conversation.
Speaker 3:Maybe we'll get that and we'll hit that in the next couple in the list, but I think that's important to denote is like no problem being a part of a group and having friends and connecting with other people, but it can't become more of your identity, because what human nature is, when that becomes my identity, then everybody else is wrong, because you know. The other thing that I landed on is that humans like dichotomy. We don't like it when things are so complex. So we like good versus evil, right versus wrong, left versus right. We like to be able to split those things into two different things. And so then the human nature is if you're not careful when you get into your group, then your group is more right than everybody else if you're not following Christ first.
Speaker 1:And Ryan, I think that's the thing that then leads to where we fall into sin of this, because then it's, my group is more right than yours, my group is more connected to God than yours. Now I'm judging you. Now we're moving on to our little special corner of the world where we're observing all of you, and special corner of the world where we're observing all of you and watching all of you unrighteous people, while we're the righteous ones. And now we're willing to stand at war with you, be at odds with you, be in division with you, separate from you and become anti-Christ and again not even realizing.
Speaker 1:Not even realizing, because you slipped into your corner.
Speaker 3:Yep Right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Final thought on this one, Phillip, before we slide to the next one.
Speaker 2:Any cliquish behavior, you have to recognize that you're already kind of drifting off the mission. I'll put it that way that you're already kind of drifting off the mission. I'll put it that way. If there's any kind of situation where you're starting to see others as on the outside, as someone that shouldn't be as deserving of your respect or as deserving of your good graces or whatever you want to call it, as the people within your clique, then you might have a problem there. You're becoming a respecter of persons.
Speaker 2:You can't, like Ryan was saying, there's nothing wrong with having your group that you kind of clique with, because you guys have probably heard the phrase like your vibe is your tribe. You know that whole thing. So there's truth to that. That we will clique, naturally, with some people more than others. Period, it's just going to be that way. But never close yourself off from others to the point that you see them as less than or anything like that. You know, because we should always be clothed with humility dealing with every person we deal with. It should never be a thing where we're separating ourselves in that kind of a way.
Speaker 1:All should be welcome. Yeah, and we've got to avoid allowing others to pressure us into behavior that puts us at odds with God.
Speaker 2:Very good, very good, very true.
Speaker 1:Philip. The next one that we've got is, oddly enough, it is the word heresies. Ah, and when we look at this word heresy, it's one of the few that actually kind of means exactly what it says it's heresy.
Speaker 2:Isn't it one of those words? It's like a transliteration, like it wasn't even translated from the Greek. Is that true about heresy? I think that's what it is.
Speaker 1:It could be, I'm not 100% sure.
Speaker 2:Okay, gotcha, sorry that just popped in my head. Please go ahead.
Speaker 1:But it comes from the Greek word hieresis, greek, or the greek word high, erases and um. It means sect, faction, heresy. Its deeper meaning is a self, listen, listen, catch this, you guys, catch this. A self-chosen opinion, ooh, a religious or philosophical sect discord or contention. You know, I think part of what's happening in some of these sins of animosity, it feels like Paul's getting down to derivatives of some similar things, so that there's no wiggle room in things.
Speaker 1:It's derived from the Greek verb. I always get so nervous when I tackle these. I don't know, guys, I think it's Harry Ome Me, or Harry Ome, harry Ome.
Speaker 2:The old Irish guy I met one time.
Speaker 3:Hermione, maybe.
Speaker 1:Right, meaning to choose or to take for oneself. While there's no direct Hebrew equivalent for heresies, the concept of division or sect can be related to terms like Makloketh, meaning division or dispute. Now, this word makloketh was connected with the last word that we just did, which meaning is division and disputes, as we see in numbers 16 and 13 regarding Korah's rebellion.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:So in the New Testament, heresies primarily refers to a group or faction that arises from a division or choice.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Often implying a departure from established doctrine or practice. It can denote a sect or a party within a larger religious context, sometimes with a negative connotation of causing division or promoting false teachings. So we talked a little bit about an overarching division in the last one, but now it has to do with your choice and doctrine. What are you thinking, Phil?
Speaker 2:This is fascinating stuff, man. Just the fact that that word heresy I was looking at the Strong's Concordance definition and it does mean properly a choice. It just means a choice. So what's getting me about that is that the human will is involved, right, and we know how we get when we we want things our way. Um, we can just make something up honestly, and I see that with a lot of uh, honestly, and I see that with a lot of ministers and preachers and ministries, they get off on maybe some doctrinal tangent and all of a sudden it becomes their position and it's like you can't let anything, no matter how strong do you feel about it, make you depart from what the word of God says.
Speaker 1:You mean like you're already born again. You know like you're already born again, you just don't know it.
Speaker 2:Right, or that Jesus saved everybody when he died on the cross. So there's no reason to even ask someone if they're born again ever. No reason to you know, those things are definitely easily disproven by the actual scriptures. But we have people who have. They have chosen right, and that's what the word heresy means. They have chosen and formed an opinion of their own about something, and what that tells me, or what it communicates to me, is a lack of humility. It's a lack of humbling yourself to what the word of God actually says. You're now saying, yeah, god, I know what you said, but dot, dot, dot. To me you're already off the page, man, and I've seen this with people that, honestly, I can't even believe. Some of these people have gone this way.
Speaker 2:But I've seen people say there's no such thing as a hell, when the scripture is plain as day. Hell is referred to several times in the Bible, from Jesus' own words, and I'm like, okay, so you're telling me that what Jesus thought about hell wasn't correct and what he said about hell wasn't correct. How can you? Where are you getting this from? I'm stumped, man. It's like it's in the scripture. I don't know, dude, just things like that. To me, that's a heretical position to say that hell doesn't really exist. It is some kind of metaphorical thing, or we're living in hell right now on the earth and all this kind of stuff like that. No, hell was very clearly defined in the scriptures. It was an actual place and Jesus referred to it many, many times. So I'm not taking that risk with my eternity, I'm just putting that out there.
Speaker 1:Right, you might feel like you're living hell on earth right now because of what you're going through but, you have no idea what real hell is like, and you might find yourself thanking the Lord for the hell that you lived on this earth that walked you right through to heaven, so that you would not have to go to hell. I don't wish that on anybody.
Speaker 2:No, that's true.
Speaker 1:But I know that we go through things and we get stuck in places and we feel certain kind of ways and we ask God, when will this end? And all of that kind of stuff. But trust me, that's nothing compared to the reality of hell. Jesus didn't just metaphorically make that stuff up in his mind.
Speaker 2:Oh no.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I wanted to read to you out of the commentary here about this is that it says and bickering, rather than the royal road of love, forgiveness and magnanimity.
Speaker 2:That's the next level, right there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I was going to say Magna Carta. Just throw that out there.
Speaker 1:But it's true. I just want you to hear the practicality of this. He's telling us even our own choices and decisions that we make in church and the things we choose to believe. We make in church and the things we choose to believe. I listen to some of these pastors sometimes and I'm like if you believe God and you believe his word, you should be on your feet, walking out of that building right now, Because there's no way that what you believe about the word and about the things of God is compatible. I don't care how good the children's program is. If they're teaching your children a bunch of unbelief too, then what good does that? Do you for them to have a great children's program? I?
Speaker 1:don't care how good the teen program is, I don't care about any of that If the pastor starts preaching something other than the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is not heresy for you to make a decision to choose to walk out of that environment. But I'm telling you, so many are choosing to walk into those environments and now they are participants in the heresy of that church. Wow.
Speaker 3:Wow, can I ask a question of you guys?
Speaker 1:We better get our spirits ready.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, Well. So if first this question might derail the rest of the podcast. So, David, you just tell me we got to come back and film another episode, then that's fine.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:But I'm also going to ask this kind of messy too. So, like you know, the whole word heresy is like you're causing a division by a different thought right or a different belief. That's kind of what the word means. So, like you know what you're saying. Well, you know the pastor should change. You're saying the pastor should change his way. But the pastor is like, well, I'm the man of God that he anointed me and put me in charge, so my way is the right way. But you're like, no, it's not.
Speaker 3:But then he's going to call you a heretic or you're going to call him a heretic. So then how do you know? Where do you draw the line of who's a heretic and who's not? Who's causing because then you're, or if you come against the pastor or the leader and you're saying, look at this, we don't agree. We love the church, we love the body, we love the people, but the way that this little part right here is operating is not healthy and it's not scriptural. And here's the scripture and you should change it. You have to bring whatever accountability or whatever. But you're not bringing it. You're just surrounding yourself with a bunch of yes men. That's a common example in the church. Then he calls you a heretic because you're trying to ruin his paradigm. Who's a heretic? Where do you draw the line on who's a heretic and who's not? Who's causing division in the church versus unity?
Speaker 1:I'll give you my answer and then, phil, you want to give an answer To me. The line in the sand is the Word of God.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:It's the Bible, and if I go to the Bible, you might be on that side of the line. I'm on this side of the line, but whoever's side the Word agrees with is the side that's right. Now, here's what you, you got to be sure of, and there's some nuance to this. Right, it can't be because you don't understand what the scripture says. Right, that can't be the thing, because you haven't spent time studying and digging in and turning that scripture over to the best of your ability, not just because you got tired and fell asleep, but you picked it up, turn it over and over again. You found whole related scripture elsewhere and all signs point to X.
Speaker 1:Then you have something, and then you go discuss it with your pastor or church leader and I think typically what you find is they can tell you the Scripture that they're talking about, but then when they start relating to stories, other mythos, but can't keep you in the word over that thing, then you got a problem, you have a potential problem there. And so now, inevitably, what happens when heresy is involved is one side always says of the other side you're the heretic, because I believe what I believe, you believe what you believe. One of us is wrong, but you're the heretic. You have to be willing to live with being called the heretic and know that you're right in the scripture and be able to walk that out. That means you two may not be able to walk together anymore, but you've got to walk in confidence, understanding and digging into your scripture.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:What's your thought, Philip?
Speaker 2:I mainly just want to echo what you're saying. As soon as you depart from what is written, then you've got an issue. That's when things start going kind of off the rails, as soon as you depart from what is written and you get into more of what's coming from your own soul. You know how in Jeremiah about the prophets that prophesied from their own soul and not from his spirit, I was thinking about something that I heard recently and this is I hope I don't take us too far off the trail, but it was a situation going on right now with a very well-known minister who certain things are starting to come to light about how he had sexually harassed some younger female staff members and assistants that were working with him, and so this story was being relayed by one of the women who was harassed by him.
Speaker 2:She said that she went and confronted him like straight up, confronted him and said you're doing this and it's wrong. And he was there with his wife and he was flatly denying everything and she told him. She said, look, you can sit here and deny all day long, but I know what you did and I know what that comes across as and it's not right, it's not pure or good intention by any means. Well, you're in the wrong, because in first Corinthians 13, it says that love believes all things.
Speaker 2:And if you're not believing me right now, then you're not walking in love. And so you can't be I mean he tried to pull this weirdo inverted jujitsu of the scripture that's what I was going to say is that if you're not careful, some of these guys that are you know these physicians.
Speaker 3:They will chop it up and make it fit, and if you don't know the word yourself, you can sit there feeling like oh god.
Speaker 1:Which takes us back to the root Of what we're always always saying On this podcast. You've got to dig into this word for yourself. Knowing the word for yourself is the key to not being deceived. Paul says see that you be not deceived. He put that responsibility on us to not be deceived not just well, because I'm a Christian, I'm not supposed to be able to be deceived. That's simply not true, and some of you are sitting in deception right now about a lot of stuff, all because you won't pick up your word and lead yourself into truth. And look, he'll even tell you. He gives you the Holy Spirit who will guide you into all truth for his name's sake. Gives you the Holy Spirit who will guide you into all truth for his name's sake. So you've got the help to even get to the truth, but you've got to start the process.
Speaker 2:That's right. And one thing I think is a huge litmus test is when, in a situation like that what I just talked about if someone's being accused and they're they're denying it and they're kind of staying, you know, like adamant about their position. To me it's a dead giveaway. Anytime you're using a scripture to justify your position to where you're never wrong, you're never in the wrong, that's going to be an issue Anytime.
Speaker 2:the outcome always favors you. You got to start thinking about that. How come, every time you get confronted, you manipulate the scriptures to make sure that you're never seen as in the wrong?
Speaker 3:And you got to convince everybody else that you're right, right, that's what I'm saying that's a dead giveaway that something's probably off.
Speaker 1:And you leave that meeting more confused than when you walked in the door. Yeah, yeah. That's also a sign that if what happens in a meeting like that, or confronting it, leads to more confusion, god is not the author of confusion. That's what the scripture says.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:God will make it plain and if that man or woman of God or that individual or person or group of individuals is functioning in a truly godly manner, it will clarify, it will not get muddier.
Speaker 2:That's right. That's good man yeah.
Speaker 3:I'll just. I know we got to keep moving, but let me just say this one last thing, sorry, you know, I think just so important that to avoid all of that, and that's really good. Thank you guys for answering. You know, for me I fell into the trap of believing somebody that took the scripture and made it to fit their own agenda and it led me down some, some twisted roads not necessarily evil, but some twisted roads.
Speaker 3:And it was my fault, because I idolize this person, know what I mean, and I made an idol out of him and I put him, I put this person on a pedestal and and that they were above reproach and that was it, and it let me down some, some bad places. Now God's brought me out of that and it's it's been good. So I guess I just say that, like my own mistake was I idolized it and so to avoid that, don't idolize any man. It's such a, it's more, it's easier than you probably think, like you think, oh, I won't worship idols, but it's it, we're designed to do it, so it's easier to do than you, than you.
Speaker 2:Agreed, Brian Agreed. It's a dangerous thing and a lot of times that's honestly how some of these ministers have been able to get away with the things they've gotten away with for so long.
Speaker 2:That is correct, that is correct, and I'm sorry I'm going down this road but they hand select their victims based on how manipulated they can be. You know, like they understand what they're doing. It's very calculated a lot of times and they know, okay, this person is going to be too starstruck to be able to really see what I'm after in this situation. You know, or they also know, that person won't fight back. You know, because I have the leverage of power and influence in their life and I'll use it for for my own gain. So things like that man, you know, and I'm not I'm not saying they're saying this out loud, but these are the kinds of things that are being thought and kind of calculated in the background. So it's, it's not a good thing. Ron, I appreciate you saying that we can't idolize or set anybody up on a pedestal, because that's like a breeding ground for abuse in one way or the other.
Speaker 1:That's good, ryan. Thanks for that interruption. Anytime, okay, we've got three more to get through. Let's see if we can blow through them real fast, not blow through them. We want to get, of course, the good meat out of it. The next one that we want to deal with in this line is actually a little bit I don't want to use the word. Well, no, actually it's not that one yet. The next one is envying Envying. The next one is envying, envying, e-n-v-y-i-n-g-s Envying. And when you look at this word envying, it comes from the Greek word it's phthanos, phthanos, too many cousins in the room Right, right, right, and I'm just trying to be the best Greek boy I can be, and it comes from the.
Speaker 1:It actually means what it says, in the sense that it means envy and jealousy. It means to hold a grudge or spite. Jealousy it means to hold a grudge or spite. It's derived from the Greek verb meaning to envy or to be jealous. It's often translated as jealousy or zeal. Don't lose sight of that, because zeal can go either way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it can.
Speaker 1:And there's one place where jealousy isn't a negative and that's in the book of James, where it talks about how the Holy Spirit basically loves you with a jealous love James 4 and 5, it says Do you think that the scripture says in vain, the spirit that dwells in us lusteth to envy. In this sense, one of the things that the commentary talks about in that sense of the use of the word envy here is, if you look at the Living Bible, it would be a more closer translation to what it means, which says or what do you think the scripture means when it says that the Holy Spirit, whom God has placed within us, watches over us with tender jealousy. But we're not talking about, when we talk about, envy in these works of the flesh. We are not talking about tender jealousy here. By no means, philip. What's your thought? As I find my way back to the page, I was just on and I just lost my place. Sorry about that no, you're good.
Speaker 2:Uh, one of the things that stood out to me was it's somewhere in that greek definition. I saw it earlier, but I used the phrase ill will and I thought that was very, very. It just popped out to me when I saw it. Ill will, and isn't that really what the, the, the core of jealousy is all about? It's actually not even so much. Man, how do I say it?
Speaker 2:I was reading a thing about communism and it was talking about how the, the, the, the core, like the core principle of communism is actually rooted in envy and resentment, because it's always not just wanting what somebody else has necessarily, even though that's a part of it, it's also being angry that they have it and you don't, you know, and so that it can get really weird.
Speaker 2:You know, we can kind of drift off on some bad stuff when we get into that, because it's almost this idea that we're not, we won't be happy unless someone else loses what they have, you know, and it brings some kind of a sick kind of satisfaction to some people when they see somebody else lose or we see somebody else's downfall. It's a condition of the heart that comes from an ill will. You don't have good intentions towards people in that kind of thing. You have this thing in you that's going. I don't like the fact that they're succeeding or that they're doing well or that they have this or have that, and it could bring some sort of a twisted pleasure if you see that person lose that thing or now go through a hard time or other stuff like that. To me that's kind of I'm probably not even describing it as best as it can be described but that to me the ill will part of it really just kind of gets to me. It's like man, that's a bad heart condition.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's even the desire to want to see them fail.
Speaker 2:Right, that's what I'm trying to say, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to want to see them eat it. Yeah, to want to see them eat it Earlier in one of the previous weeks, I think it was not last week but the week before. We dealt with the word jealousy and one of the things that came out in my commentary is that this is another classical word, similar in meaning to the trait talking about envying fithoni. Fithoni, the trait of jealousy listed earlier, which means zealous, it refers to it, it says zealous is singular and fithoni which means envying is plural.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So one word is zealous, jealousy is singular, sorry, and one word, envying, is plural, suggesting the multitudinous expressions of envious desire. Wow, so you can have that singular jealousy where you are envious of somebody for their financial position or even envious of somebody because of the anointing God's placed on their lives. But when you get over here into envyings, it's not just one thing I'm envious of their whole lifestyle, the car they drive, the fact that they always seem to have money, they seem to never struggle through anything, they have everything I want. And that's when you get into the plural of envyings, which is where you now start talking about multiple expressions of envious desires. Wow, I just think that's wild.
Speaker 2:You know, something just popped in my head. I think it's in Mark 15, maybe it was talking about when Jesus had come before Pilate, and it said Pilate perceived that the Jews were doing this to him out of envy. I thought that was so fascinating. It's like man Pilate nailed that thing. There it is. Thanks, brian. I think it was Mark 15, verse 9. It says do you want me to release to you the king of the Jews? Pilate asked for he knew it was out of envy that the chief priest had handed Jesus over. It's like wow, if you think about how that probably played out, it makes perfect sense. They were the top dogs in the religious world at the time. They were the religious establishment. You know what I mean yeah they had.
Speaker 2:They had all the respect, they had the prestige. Um, that's why jesus was talking about how, you know, they would go out to the street corners and pray openly in front of everyone, because it was just, they were known to be noble and to be the good ones, and all that kind of thing. And then here comes jesus. Man, he's like this, this literal kind of a rebel, if you want to call it that, against that system. And they couldn't stand the fact that he was getting more attention, more praise from people, more of everything the things that they constantly craved. Jesus was getting it just by doing what he was doing, and then all of a sudden he's drawing the crowds that they used to draw, you know that kind of thing. He's encroaching on our territory, man, we can't have this. They hated it, man.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I mean, that's a powerfully vile thing, if you want to put it that way, right?
Speaker 1:Philip, I want to give you one other thing from the commentary that goes back to what you were talking about ill will. It says in Galatians 5.21,. It is not tender jealousy of the Holy Spirit who indwells and protects the believer that Paul had in mind, protects the believer that Paul had in mind. Rather, it is the evil conduct and unacceptable rivalry that had sprung from the malice and ill will of the Galatians toward one another. Wow, so Paul was again dealing directly with the Galatians about their envyings and their jealousy. That was not only driving um a wedge between them, but it had sprung to rivalries, malice and ill will towards one another, so they couldn't be a community and unified with all of this stuff going on in between them.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, phil, let's, let's, um. We're gonna go a little long in this episode, you guys, because we really want to get this last part in, but we're going to kind of do a little bit of a two for one um, because there is a linkage between the two and we're gonna we're well, no, actually there's one more. There's one more sin of um animosity. That is, if you're reading right now and NIV and NLT or something like that, you will not see this. You will only see this if you have a King James or a new King James version. And that is the sin of murder. And so murders. I tell you what, philip, maybe we just hold on and do murders, drunkenness and revelings next week, and then we slide forward.
Speaker 2:You know, I think you're right. I think you're right, man, because I don't want to lightly touch on this. It's too good, it's too good, just to kind of skim over.
Speaker 1:You can't lightly handle murders. Yes, you really can't. No, all right, let's put a bookmark in it right here and we'll get back to it. We were, you're, hoping to get to the fruit of the spirit for you next week, but we're just going to push that one more week and dig a little bit deeper. It's going to be good for us, right? So Just trust the process, trust the process here. So, Phillip, let's take a moment. Let's pray for everybody, pray with some people, the heresies, and knowing. You know, knowing when you're in a bad position, and asking God to lead and guide us through all of these things. So would you pray for us and and just ask God to help us to be aware and discerning and to and to trust him.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Praise God. Father, we give you praise for just the word that was shared by way of the Holy Spirit tonight, and thank you, father, for just helping us. You told us in your word that the Holy Spirit has been sent to us to be our teacher, our comforter, our guide, and that he's the spirit of truth, which means he'll lead us into the things that are correct and accurate, according to your way and your mind and your thoughts. And so, father, thank you that we have, as 1 Corinthians 2 says, the mind of Christ. I pray that for every person listening, father, that they would recognize what the scripture has said about us in that passage, about the Holy Spirit being the mind of Christ, being the one who can impart to us the things that come from God's own thoughts and his own mind.
Speaker 2:Lord, thank you for that that we can, through your great and precious promises, we can become partakers of divine nature.
Speaker 2:We are grateful for that, father, and I pray that for all of us out there, all the listeners, all the people, and I pray that for all of us out there, all the listeners, all the people, everyone desiring to follow you, father, that we would have that wisdom from the Holy Spirit, to know how to navigate through these things, to avoid the landmines, avoid roads of deception, avoid roads of falsehood, that we would stay true to what the word says. Bring those things back to our remembrance. We pray, father, bring the scriptures back to our remembrance. Help us to rightly divide and discern what the word says about these different things that we encounter, and we just give you praise for that, father. We thank you that you help us, through the Holy Spirit, to live accurately in this present age and we are grateful for it. And we just thank you for your help and we thank you for your goodness. We give you praise for all these things in Jesus' name, amen.
Speaker 1:Amen, man, we are so glad that you guys have joined us tonight. As you see, we're digging in here and we love that you're digging with us. We encourage you to dig into the Word for yourself. Read these scriptures along with us, go and use, like the Bible Hub or the what's the one that you use, philip, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Oh, eSword eSword, find a good Bible tool or good Bible tools, use your actual Bible, all of that but dig into these things, look up these words and understand them for yourselves and pull them into context of what Paul is saying, because it's life-changing, but it's also life-directing for the believer. It's life changing, but it's also life directing for the believer. Yeah Right. So there's a lot of direction, a lot of understanding that we can gain through these things, and we encourage you to do just that. Study along with us. We also want to invite you to join us and connect with us on social media. We're out there on Twitter. We're out on Instagram. We'll soon be out on TikTok. I know I've said it for like a couple of weeks. I've got to get it set up. We're also out there on Facebook.
Speaker 1:You can find us at some variation of Bible Bros and Brew and we'd love to connect with you. You could take an opportunity and connect with us also. But first of all, any comments within the tool that you're actually watching or listening to this episode in, just drop us a note there. We do see our comments and we'll respond to you. You can also connect with us on social media, as I said, and you can send comments, you can DM us, ask us questions, suggest topics you'd like for us to cover or anything like that. But you can also email us at gotbrew at biblebrosnet. Again, that's gotbrew at biblebrosnet. We'd love to connect with you and talk some more. All right, that's it for now. Make sure, if you haven't already, take the opportunity to watch the last episode and begin to connect the dots in some of these, this connective tissue that's happening through these works of the flesh. We look forward to talking to you again next episode. Until then, peace, peace.
